The Kashmir Files Team Meets PM Modi - Page 13

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Agni_Jytsona thumbnail

Thriller Tribe

Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

Drapaudi on forgiveness and justice in conversation with yudhishtra

Listen now, O son of Virochana, to the demerits of those that are never forgiving! The man of wrath who, surrounded by darkness, always inflicteth, by help of his own energy, various kinds of punishment on persons whether they deserve them or not, is necessarily separated from his friends in consequence of that energy of his. Such a man is hated by both relatives and strangers. Such a man, because he insulteth others, suffereth loss of wealth and reapeth disregard and sorrow and hatred and confusion and enemies. The man of wrath, in consequence of his ire, inflicteth punishments on men and obtaineth (in return) harsh words. He is divested of his prosperity soon and even of life, not to say, of friends and relatives. He that putteth forth his might both upon his benefactor and his foe, is an object of alarm to the world, like a snake that hath taken shelter in a house, to the inmates thereof. What prosperity can he have who is an object of alarm to the world? People always do him an injury when they find a hole. Therefore, never exhibit might in excess nor forgiveness on all occasions. One should put forth his might and show his forgiveness on proper occasions. He that becometh forgiving at the proper time and harsh and mighty also at the proper time, obtaineth happiness both in this world and the other.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03028.htm

I shall now indicate the occasions in detail of forgiveness, as laid down by the learned, and which should ever be observed by all. Hearken unto me as I speak! He that hath done thee a service, even if he is guilty of a grave wrong unto thee, recollecting his former service, shouldst thou forgive that offender. Those also that have become offenders from ignorance and folly should be forgiven for learning and wisdom are not always easily attainable by man. They that having offended thee knowingly, plead ignorance should be punished, even if their offences be trivial. Such crooked men should never be pardoned. The first offence of every creature should be forgiven. The second offence, however, should be punished, even if it be trivial. If, however, a person commiteth an offence unwillingly, it hath been said that examining his plea well by a judicious enquiry, he should be pardoned. Humility may vanquish might, humility may vanquish weakness. There is nothing that humility may not accomplish. Therefore, humility is truly fiercer (than it seemeth)! One should act with reference to place and time, taking note of his own might or weakness. Nothing can succeed that hath been undertaken without reference to place and time. Therefore, do thou ever wait for place and time! Sometimes offenders should be forgiven from fear of the people. These have been declared to be times of forgiveness. And it hath been said that on occasions besides these, might should be put forth against transgressors.' "Draupadi continued, 'I, therefore, regard, O king, that the time hath come for thee to put forth thy might! Unto those Kurus the covetous sons of Dhritarashtra who injure us always, the present is not the time for forgiveness! It behoveth thee to put forth thy might. The humble and forgiving person is disregarded; while those that are fierce persecute others. He, indeed, is a king who hath recourse to both, each according to its time!'

Some more citations above.

kankabhor thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Realitycheque

Expected pretty much from all non hindus. But this isn't the topic to discuss MB...mr.wheeler would not like if you discuss anything other than KPs....so kindly do not digress unless you have an agenda to and stick to the topic


How do you know I am non- Hindu? Because I called out mythology a mythology? Mr Wheeler themseleves is digressing so much on this topic that they made it about MB instead of understanding the essence of my original post,

kankabhor thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

I have absolutely nothing against either of you but two things I can't tolerate is misogyny and victim shaming. I am not sure you realize it or not but you were doing just that. I realize I might have gone too far but I will stick to my point that if either of you tries and read an authentic MB text you would know that at no point Krishna reprimands Draupadi because there is nothing to reprimand her about. It was always the other way around


What misogyny and victim shaming? Can't you not read my stand which I made clear now so many times in previous posts? I pointed out the scene from MB tv show on SP, and I also said it was one version for me. You dont believe in it, thats your opinion.

kankabhor thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Realitycheque

My bad. You must be a hindu brahmin like every other person have been claiming before runnning down hinduism.

Continue....


LOL No, I am not hindu brahmin either. I am born to hindu parents and as a person of science, I dont not believe in mythology as fact. As simple as that. You need to stop assuming things about others only because they have different perspective

kankabhor thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


SP Mahabharata is not a version. It's a TV show with a great deal of fiction thrown in.


And how is it semantics to say some of the books you mentioned are fiction? Modern fiction is diff from actual versions.


In the actual versions, Panchali is the one who tells Krishna what needs to be done. He goes a little hyperbolic in his response and promises genocide. Nowhere does he reprimand her. On the other hand, she reprimands him twice in public in most versions.


Sukthankar has a nice little prologmena if you're interested in that sort of thing.


For me all versions are fictions including Vyasa's MB. And then citing any fiction from anywhere is same be it original version or some other version. The only point of original post was regarding the intention of justice.


We have fundamentally different take on MB. For you it is history and for me it is mythology. So lets leave it there. This is not the place for that debate now.

kankabhor thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

Some more citations above.


What are you even trying to prove here? That I do not know these texts that you are citing or MB is real history? You don't need to give me these citations as I said I am very much aware of everything you are saying. The only difference is you believe in just one solid version of MB from Vyasa and I believe in its fluidity. All contemprary authors, pop culture, critical editions everything is important to me and that adds to my understanding of human behaviours.


Lets leave it here. This is not the thread for MB discussion. If you are intereted to debate, we can have it in another thread somewhere.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: kankabhor


What are you even trying to prove here? That I do not know these texts that you are citing or MB is real history? You don't need to give me these citations as I said I am very much aware of everything you are saying. The only difference is you believe in just one solid version of MB from Vyasa and I believe in its fluidity. All contemprary authors, pop culture, critical editions everything is important to me and that adds to my understanding of human behaviours.


Lets leave it here. This is not the thread for MB discussion. If you are intereted to debate, we can have it in another thread somewhere.


Point is you used a madeup scene as example which shows the woman in a bad light when she was actually the one who insisted on justice and fairness.


You could've quoted her lines from what is accepted text since you said you read 10 versions. But you chose to go to a TV show which minimized her and stuffed her magnificent words into Krishna's mouth.


It reeked of patriarchy. Hence the response.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: kankabhor


For me all versions are fictions including Vyasa's MB. And then citing any fiction from anywhere is same be it original version or some other version. The only point of original post was regarding the intention of justice.


We have fundamentally different take on MB. For you it is history and for me it is mythology. So lets leave it there. This is not the place for that debate now.


Even if you consider it mythology, PoI, Mirtyunjaya, Yuganta are not versions of Mahabharata. They're just fan fiction.


Harry Potter fan fiction is not Harry Potter. Difference is Rowling can sue. Vyasa no longer has copyright and cannot sue Chitra Banerjee for whitewashing a sex assaulter.


But PoI remains fan fiction written by a sex assaulter fan.

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail

Thriller Tribe

Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: kankabhor


What misogyny and victim shaming? Can't you not read my stand which I made clear now so many times in previous posts? I pointed out the scene from MB tv show on SP, and I also said it was one version for me. You dont believe in it, thats your opinion.

It is Not one of the version its a fiction. You really nees to learn to differentiate between actually text and work of fiction SP s version, br chopra version , yuganta , POI, Mirtyunja are work of fiction. You can't club them together with translations like kmg and CE which are authentic text. Also kmg is not vyasa s version its neelkant version

Edited by M.Wheeler - 4 years ago

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