Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#11 - Page 49

Agreed to you all parental acceptance and Subhadra's infatuation for Yogi could both very well be a later attempt to excuse Krishna of something which became not acceptable into the society by the times SB was composed

But if we ignore SB, how can we be sure of Lakshmana case since it's there only in SB

The reason for abduction is very fishy here

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Text doesnt mention age of Arjun. But if we take Arjun as 14 then Bhima and Dury would be 15/16 during poisoning in which case Karna would be 27/28

At 28 years a man if he is part of a conspiracy to murder someone who has done him no harm he is pure evil. Not some misguided tragic hero

Does the text mention Arjuna's birthday celebration prior to Pandu's death?

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Text doesnt mention age of Arjun. But if we take Arjun as 14 then Bhima and Dury would be 15/16 during poisoning in which case Karna would be 27/28

At 28 years a man if he is part of a conspiracy to murder someone who has done him no harm he is pure evil. Not some misguided tragic hero

Are you sure Karna was a part of Bheem poisoning? Since BORI has removed the part where Krishna blames Karna for advising poisoning of Bheem to Duryodhan

Aside why would a random prince from a kingdom under their suzeirinity be so important to have direct access to chief prince and that too such a level that he could suggest criminal activities to the chief prince?

Even in Shanti Parva Narad says that Karna and Dury became friends during their training in Drona Ashram

Probably Ashwathama and Susharma also became Dury's friends in this time

Off topic Wikipedia says that Shusharma was a cousin (brother like) to Bhanumati (princess of Kalinga that Duryodhan abducted). Mothers of Bhanumati and Shusharma were sisters

Was wondering if Shusharma would have supported Duryodhan during the abduction or would have defended his cousin sister 🤔😕😂

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I believe that Krishna sleeping, then S and A asking for blessing is an interpolation.

1) Krishna was not stupid.

2) Balram actually says later that he asked Krishna not to fight, but Krishna insisted on going to Pandavas

3) The people who fought for Kauravas were specific to certain Yadava tribes. It wasn't that the entire force went to fight for them.

Also, daughters side was obligated, but money speaks as well. Hastinapuri was powerful.

Was not Shalya obligated to fight for Pandavas?

I don't believe Karna was that much older.

Kunti was obviously old enough to have a kid when she met Surya. That is, post puberty. She would've had her swayamvar at 16. Ie. Less than 3 years after she met Surya. Ie, Karna would've been 2.

Pandu might have waited a year or two before marrying Madri. Another year or two before deciding on niyoga.

At the most, Karna was 7 years older than Yudhishtira.

Let's say Pandavas returned just in time to go to gurukul.

No question there would've no undue delay in sending Yudhishtira and Suyodhana to gurukul. Yudhishtira was at the 10 or 11 at the time IMO.

Karna at the most would've been 17 or 18. Still old enough to know better, but not in his 20s.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Are you sure Karna was a part of Bheem poisoning? Since BORI has removed the part where Krishna blames Karna for advising poisoning of Bheem to Duryodhan

Aside why would a random prince from a kingdom under their suzeirinity be so important to have direct access to chief prince and that too such a level that he could suggest criminal activities to the chief prince?

Even in Shanti Parva Narad says that Karna and Dury became friends during their training in Drona Ashram

Probably Ashwathama and Susharma also became Dury's friends in this time

Mbh text says Athirath and Dhritharashtra were friends. Hence the connection between their children.

Originally posted by: vyapti

Was not Shalya obligated to fight for Pandavas?

Yes. And he says he has bigger obligation to Suyodhan.

Money talks, basically.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Off topic Wikipedia says that Shusharma was a cousin (brother like) to Bhanumati (princess of Kalinga that Duryodhan abducted). Mothers of Bhanumati and Shusharma were sisters

Was wondering if Shusharma would have supported Duryodhan during the abduction or would have defended his cousin sister 🤔😕😂

Defended his cousin sister.

Is Susharma mentioned before Virat Parva? If not, then its possible that he became Dury's ally much later.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Very interesting discussions are going on here. 🤗

Yes, Karna was the one who declared Panchali as a prostitute and he ordered her to stay with the maids of the Royal palace where the maids stay to be picked up by the royal males for their entertainment.

Yes, Draupadi was draped in one cloth or only saree at the time of Vastraharan. Nothing can be argued against them, however, something more can be added

Ekvastra means, wearing only one piece of cloth on her entire body. In those ancient times, royal women used to wear only one garment 'in those days' to wrap around their body without any added drapes such as choli[ blouse ] waist tightening stiff decorative cloth and the veil over their head etc, which made her more vulnerable to insult and humiliation than in ordinary condition . No ornaments, no embellishments. A weak, vulnerable royal lady, an Empress of a kingdom Samrajni of Indraprastha was grabbed by hair, dragged to the court roughly by a male?! In normal conditions, no male member of the family was not allowed to touch or see a woman while she was menstruating.

The Draupadi -disrobing episode is intrinsically linked with two other aspects--- equally dominant in the epic >>> Draupadi -staking at dice game , and single dress clad menstruating Draupadi being dragged to the Kurusabha by Dussasan.

Karna asks Dushshasana to remove the upper garments of the Pandavas as well as of Draupadi [Pandavanam cha vasansi draupadyashchapyupahara – Sabha 68.38]. In response to Karna's words, the Pandavas remove their Uttariiyas –

tat.zrutvaa.paaNDavaah.sarve.svaani.vaasaamsi.bhaarata./
avakiirya.UttariiyaaNi.sabhaayaam.samupaavizat.// (2.61.39)

Do the Pandavas stand naked thus? No. They were depleted from all their royal honors and left there as slaves. The Pandavas get away by submitting their Uttariiyas – that suggests, Uttariiya is a separate piece of garment other than the lower garment. In Draupadi's case, she was ekvastra, only one layer on her entire body.

In the case of Draupadi, the words of Karna are more powerful than the actual act, removing her vastra, and at the same time death is a lesser evil than to be disrobed by a male in front of many senior citizens, scholars, Teachers , kings and other royals.

Another aspect here is --- in every epic war, each and every royal king's wife was either humiliated , abducted, or married by the enemy to infuse irrevocable insult to his enemy , either by Ravan in Ramayan, or Duryodhan or in the later part, by Jayadhradha or Sisupal, in Mahabharath every one wanted to insult Pandavas by cruelly harassing Draupadi!!

taam.kRSyamaaNaam.ca.rajasvalaam.ca;srasta. Uttariiyaam.atad.arhamaaNaam./
vRkodarah.prekSya.yudhiSThiram.ca;cakaara.kopam.parama.aarta.ruupah.// (2.60.47)

“And seeing menstruating Draupadi dragged thus, her Uttariiya loosened, Bhima gives way to wrath fixing his eyes on Yudhishthira, seeing her helpless condition.”

Here I am posting a very interesting video in which how Duryodhan and Dussasan were threatened by Bheem --- World-class performance of visual and playback artists!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5WgJao5HMM&list=RDx5WgJao5HMM&start_radio=1&rv=x5WgJao5HMM&t=5

Thank you Madhuri.

Happy Durga Ashtami 🙏🙏

Will watch and comment later 💖💖