Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Eternal Love CC # 9 - Page 97

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

1. Narayana - man who is in yogic slumber who awakens in times of need. It's a metaphor for someone who rises to the occasion. I'd say Krishna fits the bill.

Prof Bandhopadyay has this theory. Over centuries, the rishi clans put up one figure every so many generations for the masses to worship. Someone they could use for political reasons. The prof is of the opinion that Panchali was meant to be Vyasa's Vishnu avatar. Like Mohini before her. Prof says it didn't work because patriarchy. I think it was because Panchali's progeny didn't survive. The ones who did survive (Parikshit, Vajra) pushed deification of Krishna and made Arjuna Nar, the associate of Narayana.

2. If there is one thing I can say with certainty about MBh, it's that Draupadi was NOT born from fire. MBh equates Agni to Angirasa many times, so I assume she was one of the clan who was adopted by Drupad. In fact, in Putradarshana Parva, she is called a part of the fire god. The Adivamshaavatarana parva actually calls her Lakshmi avatar.

Also, I'm darned sure the Saraswati mentioned in shloka zero of each parva is Panchali since she WAS likened to Saraswati.

narayanam namaskritya

naram chaiva narottamam

devim sarasvatim vyasam

tato jayam udirayet

3 & 4 - I gave an answer with citation previously.

5. Chili can answer better about Gandhari. Only thing I know for sure is that she was a student of Durvasa. That man certainly got around.

6. Shakuni actually had only one role to play in the saga. The dice hall. He tried to dissuade Kauravas from their misdeeds, but Karna encouraged them. Unfortunately, shows reverse the blame.

7. Story of Revathi is that she was older and taller than Balram. She was from a prior yuga and went to devaloka (I think) and on return, married Balram. He tapped her on the head with his weapon, and she became shorter. Literally, he cut her down to size. Understanding Balram's other history, you can imagine how he managed to do it.

Really he wanted Draupadi as Vishnu avatar

This is interesting. But to be honest she doesn't have as much individual story as Krishna had including some heroic wins so i guess it was easier to put him as avatar more than Draupadi

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Vasudev wasn't imprisoned. He didn't even know Kamsa was monitoring his moves.

What was happening is Kamsa monitored for Devaki's pregnancy. Vasudev was watched whenever he entered women's quarters. And once she became pregnant, she was imprisoned.

So Rohini becoming pregnant was no surprise.

https://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_002.html

Angrlly, kaMsa ordered the ministers who follow his wishes: All of you shall be engaged in destroying the conception of devakI.

Starting with the first, all the seven conceptions shall be destroyed as they are born. Where there is an apprehension about a danger, it should be destroyed at the root.

Let devakI move freely in the house, guarded by my men in disguise. When she becomes pregnant, she should be placed under guard.

My women will track her pregnancy from the month of menstruation. We will do the needful at the time of delivery.

Servants desiring my benefit shall guard vasudeva in the women's quarters throughout day and night. Women and eunuchs shall keep an eye on him without telling the reason.

Only such human efforts are possible by humans. But a powerful man like me can thwart the course of fate by certain means. Listen.

That clears it. Thanks

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Really he wanted Draupadi as Vishnu avatar

This is interesting. But to be honest she doesn't have as much individual story as Krishna had including some heroic wins so i guess it was easier to put him as avatar more than Draupadi

Wins everyone had, including Bheeshma and Karna. Arjuna prob had more wins than Krishna. Bheema had many wins, too.

Wins are not what make a Vishnu avatar.

Narayana means something extraordinary which is what Panchali did. No, I'm not saying "for a woman." I'm saying she achieved what was thought to be impossible regardless of who did the strategizing. Without her efforts, there would've been no Kurukshetra. Period. Her discourses on duties of the elite are something even today's leaders haven't understood. She lectured Krishna, not the other way around.

Also, I cannot imagine anyone else of the time having as individual and unique story as Panchali. 😆That includes Krishna.

Originally posted by: Krishnpriya

Ewww ewww ewwwwwwwwwww

I mean.....🤢it would have been much better for Kansa to put a total ban on sexual intercourse between Devaki and Vasudev. 😆 Na rehta baans na bajti bansuri.😃

So the melodramatic imprisonment of Devaki Vasudev shown in tv serials are exaggerations.

The melodramatic imprisonment is there in Bhagvata Purana.

Bhagvata Purana was written much later though.

The most authentic source about Krishna is MB and next Harivamsa. They were written earlier so must be closer to fact.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Wins everyone had, including Bheeshma and Karna. Arjuna prob had more wins than Krishna. Bheema had many wins, too.

Wins are not what make a Vishnu avatar.

Narayana means something extraordinary which is what Panchali did. No, I'm not saying "for a woman." I'm saying she achieved what was thought to be impossible regardless of who did the strategizing. Without her efforts, there would've been no Kurukshetra. Period. Her discourses on duties of the elite are something even today's leaders haven't understood. She lectured Krishna, not the other way around.

Also, I cannot imagine anyone else of the time having as individual and unique story as Panchali. 😆That includes Krishna.

Well call it conditioning or anything you might feel, but genuinely I am happy they settled for Krishna

I like Draupadi too, in fact she is my favourite character (over Krishna) but when it comes to divinity and beliefs I still want my kanha (he was my childhood crush the First one)

But I agree the accomplishments of Draupadi were great. She could have ascended the ladder to become Vishnu incarnation if not for patriarchy. The Shakts eventually made her incarnation of Aadi Shakti

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Really he wanted Draupadi as Vishnu avatar

This is interesting. But to be honest she doesn't have as much individual story as Krishna had including some heroic wins so i guess it was easier to put him as avatar more than Draupadi

Sorry but the "heroic wins" part is bit disturbing since both drapaudi and sita are considered laxmi avataar. And laxmi/sri was god just like vishnu/naryanan . They were equals To say that panchali should not be considered Narayan/divine being because of not having "heroic wins" does not rings right to me since i don't think only winning physical battles should paramount to consider yourself eligible for divinity you can play/win the political game and that very divine. Panchali/sri/laxmi single handedly won dice game and that was as divine as any of krishna s physical battles.

Laxmi is equal to vishnu. Both Krishna and krishnaa can be considered either of avtaars. Both were equally divine.

Strictly speaking about divine aspect.

Thank you so much ladies for enlightening me and everyone else in this forum.😳 So much wisdom you wonderful women have.🤗 Now i am really really encouraged to read the actual texts and not rely on suni sunayi kahaniyaan. Too much error man. Wish i had read those scriptures earlier. Someone correctly pointed out that we Hindus hardly invest any time in reading and understanding our religious texts hence the widespread misunderstandings. Lack of authentic information makes us naturally susceptible to manipulation by so called TV serial makers who do nothing but put hunky men and pretty women in pseudo vedic attires as eye-candies to lure a mass number of audience to spread their propaganda.

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

Sorry but the "heroic wins" part is bit disturbing since both drapaudi and sita are considered laxmi avataar. And laxmi/sri was god just like vishnu/naryanan . They were equals To say that panchali should not be considered Narayan/divine being because of not having "heroic wins" does not rings right to me since i don't think only winning physical battles should paramount to consider yourself eligible for divinity you can play/win the political game and that very divine. Panchali/sri/laxmi single handedly won dice game and that was as divine as any of krishna s physical battles.

Laxmi is equal to vishnu. Both Krishna and krishnaa can be considered either of avtaars. Both were equally divine.

Strictly speaking about divine aspect.

I didn't say she "shouldn't" have been considered, I said it would have been difficult for them to make her one. To make a person divine doesn't require only to announce, it involves the acceptance of a good population. Krishna's story since childhood was filled with challenges and him overcoming them, his importance in Mahabharata war can't be subdued either.

Draupadi on the other hand had relatively simpler childhood with not much actions, Mahabharatha was her major accomplishment, but technically even that was considered more of Yudhishtir's achievements than hers (by the people of that era as well as those of today in Fact they make in Arjun's)

Hence in such situation convincing her a Goddess/Vishnu Avtaar would have been much more of a challenge than that of Krishna

Strictly my point of view

What fascinates me more is the Vaishnawites taking up this story. The entire epic is filled with Mahadev Bhakti, the lineage was most probably the follower of Shaivite sect. This makes sense too, since we have found Shivalinga as old as 2500 BCE in Kalibagan.

And the Purus especially the BharatVanshi Purus did take hold along the areas of western India (Sudasa and the Dashragya Yudhh in Rig Veda irrespective of whether or not AIT/AMT is true). Purus would have been his descandant

Vaishnavites would have been really clever to have taken this story of Shaivites and use it to show how great their God is to come on this earth for his people

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I didn't say she "shouldn't" have been considered, I said it would have been difficult for them to make her one. To make a person divine doesn't require only to announce, it involves the acceptance of a good population. Krishna's story since childhood was filled with challenges and him overcoming them, his importance in Mahabharata war can't be subdued either.

You have answered your question more beautifully than anybody else. Read again the highlighted part

This process is called deification. Taking childhood incidents and adding supernatural masala to make the child seem divine

So small pox and surviving from it will become story of Putana (Putana is name of small pox in medicinal texts)

Accidental breaking of a cart wheel near a sleeping baby and it overturning as a result but baby surviving by fluke will become a Asura in disguise of cart killed by Krishna

And in a previous answer by Hear me roar you would have seen how assault on Yamuna becomes a divine show of power

Draupadi on the other hand had relatively simpler childhood with not much actions,

, Infact there is no childhood. She is apparently born as an adult from fire. Her birth is shown as an avatar, just like Narsimha Matsya Kurma Varaha Vamana and Mohini. No childhood is ever mentioned for any of them or even Parshuram and Rama. Only Krishna is getting divine leelas so what does that say

Mahabharatha was her major accomplishment, but technically even that was considered more of Yudhishtir's achievements than hers (by the people of that era as well as those of today in Fact they make in Arjun's)

Like Hear me Roar says Vajra and Janmejaya made Krishna Narayan and Arjun Nara.

If it was Yudhishtir's grandson who survived Yudhiatir would have been the awesomest guy in the epic

And if Draupadi's sons survived she would have been worshipped just like Mahishasura Mardini is

In fact we do have temples all over Tamilnadu and Karnataka for Draupadi built by people who claim to be her descendents and still have as grand a festival for her every year called Karaga just as Janmashtami is for Krishna. There is a temple a km away from my home bang in the middle of chennai city.

The political power for the intervening period between the war and rise of Asoka's was in the hands of Vaishnava Rishis and their main gurus who were patronised by Vajra and Janmejaya made Krishna Vishnu.

Hence in such situation convincing her a Goddess/Vishnu Avtaar would have been much more of a challenge than that of Krishna

Strictly my point of view

Masses were never the problem, people telling the masses whom to worship were. The influencers (Kings and Priests).

Vyasa had already built sufficient ground work for her by first the Yoga Maya who replaced Krishna in jail raised as a Goddess. Her myth and then compounding it with Fire birth and few miracles could do what was needed to make her the avatar. Dyut Sabha being one of the highlights.

Imagine Draupadi getting a Vishwarupa just as Dusshasan comes to get her sari. Just like Krishna gets a Vishwarupa when Dusshasan at Duryodhan's insistence tries to handcuff him.

Hope you see the parallels here of myth making as to what was intended and what turned out.