Nothing, Nowhere, No more...so convince us - Page 2

Originally posted by: malikakas

You are forgetting the next line he said to her.. how could you do this to my dad. That in of itself is a betrayal to her. She chose him over her dad and now her dad is dead, possibly because of his and he is asking her how she could do this to his. To me that would feel like a betrayal to Suman. In her mind she screwed up with her dad for him so badly only to see Shravan side with his dad at the expense of justice for hers.

Sorry what? Him just asking her how she could think his dad is a traitor is a betrayal?

She kept silent as he said everyone is calling his dad a traitor....in her mind, she was thinking about what her Daddu said about Devraj making the faulty jackets...so she was actually already believing it, no? So why is Shravan asking her how she feels his dad could be a traitor being considered a "betrayal"? Any child would say the same about their father....so would Suman if Shravan was silent in response to her dad's honor being questioned.

The real problem here is different set of rules being applied to Suman and Shravan....everything is being excused for Suman because she was in grief....while Shravan is not expected to take any stand for his father.

Till the very end he kept saying, "Suman I know you're angry right now, maybe let's talk later"....but she was so far gone that she threw him out in a fit of rage. And over what? Because he felt upset when she called his dad a traitor? Won't any child feel upset by that? He was upset, but even then HE didn't choose his father over Sumo....he just stood by his father....he never pushed Suman away....SHE did that. That changed everything.

Im not gonna take sides here lol

Shravan totally has the right to feel betrayed by sumo coz she brutally broke up with him and it was definitely hurtful enough to stay with him all this time. She did it.

As for sumo she went from loving him forever to those brutal insults. Obviously her dads letter and daddus bakwas helped her brain lol but i think the tiwaris always have had this issue they suppress their feelings and it comes out like a blast and it hurts others. All these years later no one has been able to make suman take a wider lens towards what happened. I guess the court case is playing its part in not giving anyone any closure which sumo really needs like a good knock on her head lol

I think its like suvan at least from an emotional relationship point are still stuck at 17/18 that were destroyed the day vijay died. They might be mature young people with good jobs and are independent but there is part of them stuck in the same spot hence why its so confusing to get them sometimes lol

Originally posted by: manny136

Im not gonna take sides here lol

Shravan totally has the right to feel betrayed by sumo coz she brutally broke up with him and it was definitely hurtful enough to stay with him all this time. She did it.

As for sumo she went from loving him forever to those brutal insults. Obviously her dads letter and daddus bakwas helped her brain lol but i think the tiwaris always have had this issue they suppress their feelings and it comes out like a blast and it hurts others. All these years later no one has been able to make suman take a wider lens towards what happened. I guess the court case is playing its part in not giving anyone any closure which sumo really needs like a good knock on her head lol

I think its like suvan at least from an emotional relationship point are still stuck at 17/18 that were destroyed the day vijay died. They might be mature young people with good jobs and are independent but there is part of them stuck in the same spot hence why its so confusing to get them sometimes lol

@bold: Thank you for acknowledging that.

I frankly don't want to take sides either....but I'm just flabbergasted seeing arguments about how Shravan has no right to feel betrayed and Suman absolutely is justified in thinking he betrayed her when he literally barely said anything in the breakup scene.....she was the one who said all the main hurtful things....he just stood there in shock and hurt for the most part.

Sadly, the writing for that scene was so shitty that the writers have successfully managed to split the discussion into people taking sides rather than seeing any avenue for this relationship to be repaired. No one would fixate on the breakup if the post-leap scenes had some dhang ka movement and layering in the story....but it's all one-note hate/anger scenes.....which ultimately is leading to disconnect from both characters and the whole story.

Originally posted by: AreYaar

Wrong. Suman was clearly shown flashbacking to her dad saying Shravan is not right for her and the fact that the scene culminated in her saying this very thing to him shows that her mind was building up to it. So no, it's not "interpretation". It's analysis based on what was shown pretty explicitly in the scene. You seem to be the one ignoring whichever portions don't jive with your interpretation of Suman.

No she didn't have that flashback in that scene. She had a flashback to Dadu saying if corrupt Devraj didn't make a fake vest my son would be alive, a flashback to her dad hugging her at the badminton match with Shravan and then to her dead father. And then she said I don't to talk, leave from here. If she were building up to breaking up with him at that moment she would have done it. Tbh I always thought she would eventually break up with him but in that scene I felt she wasn't thinking about it until the moment he triggered her.

Suman was the one who ultimately broke the relationship and threw Shravan out so brutally but he was the one expected to ignore EVERYTHING she said cuz she was in grief? That makes him SELFISH? This level of "magnanimity" is expected from a mere boy of 17? If the roles were reversed, would Suman have given this much "benefit of doubt" to Shravan as he called her dad a traitor and threw her out? I doubt it.

Yes. When someone is in grief that's what you do. You don't take what they say seriously. And even if you do you still accept how much pain they were in.

I have watched tons of shows with this concept and honestly I have always had a similar reaction. Recently I used to watch a Turkish show called Cesur Ve Guzel. The man behaves similarly with his wife when his mom dies and he thinks her dad is responsible. He leaves her for a few months but when he comes back to town she chases him to see how he is. Here's the clip. The story is also complicated because he once told her that his hatred for her father won't get in the way of their relationship and in this case her father was innocent too. https://youtu.be/SRGv2FQpyuM?t=581

She was always blind to her father.....would she be justified then too?

I think this is a major point. She WAS always blind to her father but when push came to shove she chose Shravan. So for her to feel that he wasn't doing the same felt like a betrayal to her. Her died. His dad just had an accusation and he was asking her how she could do that to his father just because she said she didn't want to talk about it.

Whereas for Shravan I feel that with time and space he should be able to understand. Maybe not at 17 but a few years later? He could still feel that what she did was hurtful and not want to be in a relationship with her again. Even that I would understand. But I don't relate to his anger that she gave him dhoka.

Originally posted by: AreYaar

@bold: Thank you for acknowledging that.

I frankly don't want to take sides either....but I'm just flabbergasted seeing arguments about how Shravan has no right to feel betrayed and Suman absolutely is justified in thinking he betrayed her when he literally barely said anything in the breakup scene.....she was the one who said all the main hurtful things....he just stood there in shock and hurt for the most part.

Sadly, the writing for that scene was so shitty that the writers have successfully managed to split the discussion into people taking sides rather than seeing any avenue for this relationship to be repaired. No one would fixate on the breakup if the post-leap scenes had some dhang ka movement and layering in the story....but it's all one-note hate/anger scenes.....which ultimately is leading to disconnect from both characters and the whole story.

Its so annoying ppl taking sides but thats how the writing has been so confusing and disjointed lol I guess they wanted the break up to be brutal to separate them for years and obviously breaking up with your gf who just lost her dad would be in bad taste lol so they made sumo the scapegoat lol They really are wasting away the potential by showing filler scenes and the 3rd angle more than the leads who have been relegated to the doctors office lol their arguments revolve around the same things basically case over leaving, character judgements passive aggressive taunts lol

They better show some movement this week i dont get what they are waiting for lol even jhumri ship is sailing better then the leads lol they are more fun to watch then so called chipku lawyer friend lol and suvans repetitive scenes lol

Originally posted by: malikakas

I think this is a major point. She WAS always blind to her father but when push came to shove she chose Shravan. So for her to feel that he wasn't doing the same felt like a betrayal to her. Her died. His dad just had an accusation and he was asking her how she could do that to his father just because she said she didn't want to talk about it.

I think you are viewing the scene very differently. I didn't see anything in that scene that indicated Shravan choosing his father over Suman😕. If he had chosen his father over Suman, why would he even come to the Tiwari house? He would only stick to his own house and focus on getting his dad released, no?

He came to that house for Suman only.....the first time when he brought her back for Vijay's funeral, he was there FOR HER before he got thrown out by HER family. Does none of that count?😕 You are saying that simply cuz Shravan didn't blindly throw his own father under the bus and go along with everyone calling his dad a traitor, he betrayed Suman? 😕

I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that Shravan tune himself constantly to all of Suman's erratic mood swings even as she slaps him, shouts at him, says hurtful things..... but in turn, he can't be given any consideration in wanting to stand by his own father.

That's just not going to make sense to me. Maybe we will have to leave it at an agree to disagree moment here then. I don't think we can bridge the gap of perception here.

I keep reading about grief how grief is what made things like this. Grief is a reason but is it really a justification? Say if devraj is by all means legally acquitted then is grief again going to be enough of a justification to drag an innocent man malign him and his family for so many years. Just because they are all alive it's all cool and okay?

Shravan's parents are alive so there is no way he is allowed to feel heartbreak betrayal? It's absolutely okay to tell him you'd ruin my life? They both fell in love shravan didn't force her to fall in love with him both were same age shravan had no upper hand or twisted situation to make sure she falls in love with him. And if people really do believe that then they should stop calling suman headstrong girl because these two things can't coexist.

Fact is writers have screwed up real bad and suman isn't a layered character she is the SCAPEGOAT for the writers to bring random twists and turns in the story. And until the day people keep on justifying everything she does writers will keep on using her as per their wishes.

Originally posted by: Kaira4ever

I@malikakas understand what you are saying but after the initial pain is over —- you may also consider that

a) Shravan is not his dad If his dad was responsible

This is a common plot in almost every show I have watched. Somehow it becomes very difficult to differentiate the two. Could you really be with someone if their dad was responsible for the murder of yours. Emotionally it would be very difficult. But that's not Shravan's fault. But if he is defending his dad then he does become his fault partially because now he is standing in the way of what she perceives as justice for hers.

B) She and Shravan decided to rebel and leave home so yes she feels guilty but that is not Shravan’s fault either

So Suman feels her own level of guilt. I don't think she blamed him for running away. She clearly wasn't distancing herself when she arrived at the funeral. And later I felt that she was focussed more on her own guilt and grief that she wasn't thinking of the relationship.

But what I was commenting is what Shravan's emotions would be on the subject. I don't think a truly conscientious person would not feel bad that they both hurt her father right before he died. Maybe not in that moment. But years later.. there would be some thought to it. So it would lead him to understand Suman's perspective a bit moreee.

so it did seem to him as a betrayal of trust in him —

Especially as she simply BROKE up rudely with no explanation - no conversation — nothing !!

notwithstanding —- the point remains that the path back to love isn’t clear now ....

Trusting Suman is next to impossible for Shravan - she’s going to have to earn it and theNsome !

See and for me its completely the opposite. I feel Shravan has to show that tenderness and care that Suman needs to overcome her guilt. He needs to show that it was worth it. That even if they were young they had something. If she was wrong to break up then its up to him to show her that. Because she didn't break up with him for a superficial reason. She broke up with him because their relationship was at the expense of justice to her deceased father that she hurt for Shravan before he died.

That’s why I feel this is not a typical serial situation where a 3rd wheel jealousy track will change anything reasonably for the positive .... but hey, maybe ones expecting too much!

I don't think a 3rd wheel track was needed at all. The emotions are far more complex.

Originally posted by: Khyati8

I keep reading about grief how grief is what made things like this. Grief is a reason but is it really a justification? Say if devraj is by all means legally acquitted then is grief again going to be enough of a justification to drag an innocent man malign him and his family for so many years. Just because they are all alive it's all cool and okay?

Shravan's parents are alive so there is no way he is allowed to feel heartbreak betrayal? It's absolutely okay to tell him you'd ruin my life? They both fell in love shravan didn't force her to fall in love with him both were same age shravan had no upper hand or twisted situation to make sure she falls in love with him. And if people really do believe that then they should stop calling suman headstrong girl because these two things can't coexist.

Fact is writers have screwed up real bad and suman isn't a layered character she is the SCAPEGOAT for the writers to bring random twists and turns in the story. And until the day people keep on justifying everything she does writers will keep on using her as per their wishes.

@bold: You raise a very valid point. There is a whole other set of trauma associated with your name being maligned for 7 years. Will there be any accountability if Devraj is acquitted? Will Suman have any realization of what she put Shravan and his family through in her own rage and grief? When we start comparing which grief or which trauma is bigger, that is when a story starts going down the drain.

Suman's grief over losing her father is understandable....it is a tremendous loss and a lifelong trauma. But Shravan's trauma is also just as big in its own way....he saw his dad being arrested, called a traitor, then the one relationship he valued the most got broken off so brutally and he was thrown out....one can't say that trauma is only valid if someone dies....trauma is trauma....it leaves scars either which way.

And word on how Suman is a scapegoat in this track and frankly in other tracks in the past also.....the writers twist her per convenience when they feel like. But this time, I fear they may have taken it too far with her character and things may be beyond repair now.

Originally posted by: AreYaar

I think you are viewing the scene very differently. I didn't see anything in that scene that indicated Shravan choosing his father over Suman😕. If he had chosen his father over Suman, why would he even come to the Tiwari house? He would only stick to his own house and focus on getting his dad released, no?

I am saying from her perspective that's what it would have felt like. He's asking her "how can you do this to my dad". That implies protection for his dad over what Sumo is going through when she was already struggling with picking Shravan over hers. That's why she replies incredulously "how can I do this to your dad".

He came to that house for Suman only.....the first time when he brought her back for Vijay's funeral, he was there FOR HER before he got thrown out by HER family. Does none of that count?😕

Not if his dad is accused of making a faulty vest. Can hardly blame the Tiwari's for their reaction. And yes I loved Shravan for coming over to help her out. I love Shravan for realizing that her pain was bigger than his. But the problem is there was no follow through on that. He said it..but his actions didn't match that. Despite hearing her say "I am sorry papa I made a big mistake" he immediately starts talking about his dad. He was a 17 year old kid so I don't blame him for that. But it was insensitive. And frankly I think a more mature person would have understood that she may be conflicted if his dad is to blame when there was evidence to arrest him.

You are saying that simply cuz Shravan didn't blindly throw his own father under the bus and go along with everyone calling his dad a traitor, he betrayed Suman? 😕

No.. not at all. I am fully okay with him supporting his dad. But I think now so many years later he can at least understand her perspective. He doesn't even have to want to get together again. But certainly he can understand the frame of mind she was in.. losing a parent and being told that your boyfriend's dad is responsible. If the case has been going on for 7 years then it is not a clear cut case. She has a right to her gut feeling. He has a right to his. But he is now in a position to understand that a loss of a parent in those circumstances would have clouded her judgement. So even if he thinks she was wrong, I don't understand the degree of anger. Certainly not to the point that he is calling all women dhokebaaz.