Karna and Duryodhan's Friendship - Page 4

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

When some kind of glory is attached to Karna for refusing Krishna's offer, we're assuming:

1. Krishna's offer was genuine when Pandavas didn't authorize him to offer the empire to anyone else. Moreover, he offers Panchali, a woman on whom he had no authority (I use the term because of the times) - she was neither his sister, nor his daughter, nor his wife. If any of us offered a neighbor's wife to a 3rd man...😆 You get the gist. Moreover, according to Vedic rules, a younger brother's wife was akin to daughter which is why it is stated specifically Yudhishtira married first. Then, there is the promise Krishna made to Panchali to see Karna dead. There is also the instance where Krishna tells Arjuna it is perfectly all right to lie to an enemy.

2. Glory assigned to Karna means he didn't actually understand Krishna's shrewdness and ability to manipulate. For all his faults, Karna was an intelligent man.

3. Glory assigned to Karna means he assumed if he actually agreed to switch, Krishna would've actually let him live long enough to take the throne and not end up like Shishupala.

______

Back to the topic, I think perhaps the friendship started out of mutual necessity, but it gives off genuine vibes.

Krishna very well knew Karna would never accepted this offer and even if he did, we have enough citations to prove he was not as good as Arjun. Now if he fights on Arjun's side, what makes anyone think Duryodhan won't get so angry as to kill Karn himself and if he doesn't because he loved him, Bhishma, Drona etc were present who were not fond of him. Krishna knew very well what he was doing.

IE: Panchali. If we really consider Krishna ACTUALLY made that offer, that literally ruins all the good wishes Krishna bore for Panchali because she isn't a freaking object to be shared with the sixth brother. And even basic versions of epic will tell you Krishna cared more about Panchali than Karna. 🤣

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Perhaps Karna didn't know about the vow to kill. But he surely knew the offer was fake when Panchali's name was mentioned. He most certainly saw what happened to Shishupala.

I think Karna realized it.

So I won't assign any glory to him for the refusal when Krishna took pains to make it clear the offer was fake.

Thing is, I kind of feel Karna would've stuck with his friend even if the offer were genuine. No citations to offer as evidence, just the vibe I get from the text.

Karna would do anything to be against Arjun and kill him. Even if it means giving away the chance to be important. Just what I feel about his character. He never really wanted a kingdom. He just wanted to be superior to Arjun.

I don't think so the friendship was for benefit purposes. Karna Duryodhan friendship was honourable, infact regarded as high as Ram Sugreev's friendship.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

You mean to say Duryodhan was a true friend to Karna but not vice versa???

All the TV show producers are looking for you

🤣🤣🤣

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Krishna very well knew Karna would never accepted this offer and even if he did, we have enough citations to prove he was not as good as Arjun. Now if he fights on Arjun's side, what makes anyone think Duryodhan won't get so angry as to kill Karn himself and if he doesn't because he loved him, Bhishma, Drona etc were present who were not fond of him. Krishna knew very well what he was doing.

IE: Panchali. If we really consider Krishna ACTUALLY made that offer, that literally ruins all the good wishes Krishna bore for Panchali because she isn't a freaking object to be shared with the sixth brother. And even basic versions of epic will tell you Krishna cared more about Panchali than Karna. 🤣

He had the option to not fight the war. Just accept the offer n not fight

Even if Karna was not as good as Arjun he was a good fighter and not necessarily he would have been killed in the war.

Anyhow the question here is not what Krishna had planned, the point is that Karna rejected the offer he had more to gain on switching sides

About him being having the aim of being better than Karna as the solo option wasn't the case as proved when he supported Lakshagriha

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Karna went ahead (very well manipulate by krishna and kunti ) and gave a promise to not kill YBNS - yudhishtra being the king here whose death would have turned the wheels of the war to kaurvakas advantage his prime motive being only to kill arjuna so that he could prove himself better - sums up the friendship from karna s side

Duryodhan Provided Karna with entire kingdom in platter , use to seek his advice and even mourned his loss - sums up friendship from duryodhan s side.

Says a lot

No 😆

How about Karna not leaving his side inspite of knowing that he was the elder brother of Pandavas, Suryaputra and knowing that Dury was in the adharma camp and they were never going to win with Krishna on the opposite side?

Originally posted by: Mannmohanaa

I don't think so the friendship was for benefit purposes. Karna Duryodhan friendship was honourable, infact regarded as high as Ram Sugreev's friendship.

Where did this equivalence mentioned

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Where did this equivalence mentioned

This is something that my Hindi teacher had told me long back. We were studying the Ram Sugreev Maitri part of Ram Charit Manas and then she'd told that there were many historic friendships in the Treta and Dwapar Yugs, Duryodhan and Karna being one of them.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

He had the option to not fight the war. Just accept the offer n not fight

Even if Karna was not as good as Arjun he was a good fighter and not necessarily he would have been killed in the war.

Anyhow the question here is not what Krishna had planned, the point is that Karna rejected the offer he had more to gain on switching sides

About him being having the aim of being better than Karna as the solo option wasn't the case as proved when he supported Lakshagriha

@bold - Yes, because this involved the killing of Arjun along with the rest whom I don't think he cared about. So he would of course support it and also, this would make his friendship with Duryodhan stronger.

My point is that, if we are actually crediting Karna for rejecting Krishna's offer it should be because he was intelligent enough to know Krishna was faking. I was trying to say that Krishna's words clearly prove he wasn't a well wisher of him, he simply was trying to manipulate him because he was well aware Karna would never do it. And if he was foolish enough to do so, Krishna definitely had his ways to have him killed in the war and besides, Draupadi was not a child I am sure she would not be like if Keshav said let me be yours or something. As for being the king of Hastinapur is concerned, Karna again never wanted to be a King at least I don't think he said so he would hand it over to Duryodhan. Keshav knew that and he would not let that happen.

Hope I was able to clear what I mean.

Originally posted by: Mannmohanaa

No 😆

How about Karna not leaving his side inspite of knowing that he was the elder brother of Pandavas, Suryaputra and knowing that Dury was in the adharma camp and they were never going to win with Krishna on the opposite side?

Not leaving his side and also not giving his 100% and karna was as adharmi as duryodhan so why put all the blame only in duryodhan ???