physical description of pandavas and pandav queens - Page 3

Chiillii are you there? Do you have any idea about Advaita philosophy and it's link to Quantum physics?

Why did Heisenberg, Shrodinger, Segan etc. find it so amazing and close to modern science

Of course daughters were there.

See patriarchy manifests toxic masculinity in weird ways.

So Pandavas or Krishna specially become Alpha males. Having a daughter would make them less of a man. So you will have a ridiculous number that Krishna had 16108 wives and each wife had 10 sons and 1 daughter.

So Krishna had 161080 sons..

The number itself points out to the ridiculousness of the whole situation

And why just them

We have Dhritrashtra with 10 Gandhar princesses married to him all having 10 sons making the count 100 but only 1 daughter.

Vasudev ( Krishna's father) has 14 wives and nearly 80 sons from them and only 1 daughter.

Pandu having 5 sons from 2 wives still looks reasonable, but it is just not possible that Arjun had 7 wives and all gave birth to only sons.

Bhima had 4 wives Sahadev had 4 Nakul had 3 but absolutely no daughters is ridiculous

It is biologically impossible. Of course there were daughters.

At least Yudhishtirs' daughter gets a mention in Harivansh and Puranas. So she definetly was there.

There would have been more for sure. But considered inconsequential to be mentioned

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Of course daughters were there.

See patriarchy manifests toxic masculinity in weird ways.

So Pandavas or Krishna specially become Alpha males. Having a daughter would make them less of a man. So you will have a ridiculous number that Krishna had 16108 wives and each wife had 10 sons and 1 daughter.

So Krishna had 161080 sons..

The number itself points out to the ridiculousness of the whole situation

And why just them

We have Dhritrashtra with 10 Gandhar princesses married to him all having 10 sons making the count 100 but only 1 daughter.

Vasudev ( Krishna's father) has 14 wives and nearly 80 sons from them and only 1 daughter.

Pandu having 5 sons from 2 wives still looks reasonable, but it is just not possible that Arjun had 7 wives and all gave birth to only sons.

Bhima had 4 wives Sahadev had 4 Nakul had 3 but absolutely no daughters is ridiculous

It is biologically impossible. Of course there were daughters.

At least Yudhishtirs' daughter gets a mention in Harivansh and Puranas. So she definetly was there.

There would have been more for sure. But considered inconsequential to be mentioned

Nakul had 3 wives , I read he had only two wives , Karenumati & draupadi

Chiillii are you there? Do you have any idea about Advaita philosophy and it's link to Quantum physics?

Why did Heisenberg, Shrodinger, Segan etc. find it so amazing and close to modern science

I'll explain with an example.

I and my friend see painting of a girl with blue eyes in a museum

My friend says the painter drew the eyes blue. He was European so he will only draw blue eyes.

( This would be abrahamic religions and Hinduism of Puranic period and present times, where things are taken literally, and people blindly believed stories told to them, like Ravana flew a plane)

I say the painting is a century old, so the eyes must have been black but the color faded over time so it looks blue now or it could be black I don't know

(This would be Rishis of Vedas and Vedanta, who tried to use logic and rationality to explain that our information on any subject is limited. So instead of blind belief we must ask questions and investigate)

A modern scientist comes and listens to both me and my friend and tells me, I am impressed by your logical assessment. I am thinking the same too. But he doesn't stop there, he takes down the painting does a chemical analysis on the paint and then says it is actually indigo black that faded due to negligence and now looks blue.

So now compare me and the modern scientists. Are we at the same level. Are we even close.

Vedas and Vedantas don't have Trimurtis and their miracles. All they say is there a force that created this universe and us and we don't know about it.

It could be within us or we could be within it.

We should find out.

They stop at this point

Scientists began their work at this point

Thankyou dear. It explains pretty well. This helped me a lot in responding to that person.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Is Ruchiparvan mentioned in the epic? I thought epic Gave the account of only three Arjun's son getting killed in the war. Could you share the details about it.

Yes in only 1 sentence in Bhishma Parva where he is being attacked by kouravas but rescued by Upapandavas and Abhimanyu. Nothing else is given

Are you sure Devika married Yudhishtir post Draupadi Swayamwar? If Yudheya was the same as Prativindhya, then Arjun found him in Ekchakranagri. Since Pandavas lived in Ekchakranagri before Draupadi Swayamwar, hence most possibly Devika marriage n Yudheya birth would have happened before Draupadi Swayamwar. They left the child in someone's custody before Swayamwar to fake as unmarried.

There are two scenarios. In some texts including burdwan edition of which KMG is a translation, Yudhishtir is coronated as crownprince due to public pressure after Rangabhoomi, Arjun does a digvijay of western neighbours, Bhima goes to Dwarka to learn mace from Balrama and Sahdev goes to Brihaspati to learn administration.

Coronation (King or crown prince) cannot happen without a wife. It's mandatory, that is why Kashi princesses are kidnapped by Bhishma for Vicjitravirya at the time of coronation and Pandu marries Kunti.

So Yudhishtir must have married Devika then who was the princess of neighbouring kingdom.

But BORI has removed this entire section completely. So if no coronation happened as crownprince then odds are that Yudhi married Devika after Draupadi. Again IP had Yamuna as border on one side. The other side of the Yamuna was Sivi kingdom. So it makes sense he marries her to protect the borders.

So no clarity here.

Also the reason why Prativindhya Yaudheya mixup happens is that some editions of MB have the name of the prince Devaka after his mother. While some Puranas give Prativindhya a son named Yaudheya.

Also a lot of people presume Sivi King did not fight for Pandavas, that is wrong. Like Hastinapur Sivi also had two factions. One faction had acknowledged Jayadrath as their leader and joined kouravas while the other faction was led by father of Devika who fought for Pandavas and died at the hands of Drona.

Is Bhanumati the wife of Nakul Krishna's daughter? This I didn't know. Strage that he married the daughters of Krishna n Shishupal, wonder what Mahabharata would they have done in their house. But when did this marriage happen? Did it happen before DyutSabha? Strange that they mention Subhadra in such detail in Sreemad but not Bhanumati.

Bhanumati is wife of Sahdev not Nakul. Krishna Shishupal and Kunti's sons were cousins. Krishna's father, Shishupal's mother and Kunti were siblings.

Bhanumati is mentioned in Harivansh.

Subhadra got a lot of prominence and so did Abhimanyu and Arjun because the story was being told to their great grandson Janmejaya. He asks pointed specific questions about them. Mahabharata was narrated primarily as a war story. It was in answer to the question why did the war happen. So only those charachter's and events got any mention that had relevance to the final war. Others were simply found irrelevant and hence ignored.

JJ being the one giving dakshina and vaishayamapayana obliging him to receive it kept his focus on JJ's family and Subhadra and Uttara. That is why others are just one sentence and some like Duryodhan's wife or Karna's wife is not even named.

Lastly want to understand more about Shalya n his brother. Shalya was coming to support Pandavas but was tricked to support Kauravas by Duryodhan right? In this case how is it possible that his brother was also not tricked? Weren't they coming together? And why Duryodhan only tricked Shalya n not his brother. This seems very unusual.

Actually the trickery part was just political diplomacy and nothing else. Shalya wanted to be on Kourava side. He went. Most importantly his brother Dyutimat and nephew Srenimat fought for Pandavas as Vijaya was Sahadev's wife. In Indonesian Mahabharata Shalya has three daughters.

Banowati married to Duryodhan

Rekawati married to Balaram

Sukanti married to Karna.

In the beginning of MB Vyasa explains the war happened because Kshatriya had become a burden on earth.

What was actually happening was polygyny. Each king will have at least two wives. More often then not they will have sons born in the same year and with equal claim to the throne. Like Rama and Bharat or due to some reason younger brother would get the throne but older brother and his children would not accept that like Dhritrashtra and Pandu. Sometimes the kingdoms would be divided by the father to avoid problems like Rama did by dividing Kosala into two Usinara did. Even yayati tried.

But more often than not too many sons were being born and everyone wanted the throne. That is why war happened.

In the war all the guys fighting were there for their own throne

Kouravas Pandavas for Hastinapur

Kaikeya cousins for their kingdom on opposite Sides

Jarasandh's son and his cousin for Magadha

Sivi cousins on opposing sides

Kasi / Kosala cousins on opposing sides

Madra cousins on opposing sides

Satyaki/Kritaverma cousins on opposing sides

Please respond

Aside I had sent you a PM please check it

Thankyou about confirming on Ruchiparvan. He could be a DasiPutra too in that case. I doubt he would have been Subhadra's if Abhimanyu's age was 16 at the war

I made a typo there naming Nakul instead of Sahdev. I meant that Karenumati was Shishupal's daughter n Bhanumati Krishna's (The killer of Shishupal), so like Karenumati could have tried take some revenge from her Devrani.

I think parallel cousin marriages (or with their kids) wasn't allowed. Nakul n Shishupal or Sahdev n Krishna weren't technically cousins since Madri had no relation to either Vasudev or to Shishupal's mom(just forgot her name,😛). I think the Chhedi princess wife of Bheem would have been from some other mom too.

I agree on Subhadra's importance in MB being mainly due to JJ, but I meant even Sreemad which was about Krishna didn't highlight her, but definitely even that was narrated to Parikshit (although I don't believe this)

Yes I had read about Shalya's daughters being married to KaDu (and Balram) in Indonesian Mahabharata, but somehow could not come to terms to it. I mean if Banowati(seems a deformed version of Bhanumati) was Shalya's daughter, then Kalinga being Duryodhan's in law state becomes wrong, something which all Indian secondary versions state. Difficulty is much more in case of Rekawati (deformed version of Revati) because Dwarika was something Balram got in dowry, how could she be the daughter of Madra Naresh

If Karna was the son in law of Shalya, why was he trying to lower Karna's morale in Karna Parva? I mean yes he felt humiliated to become a Charioteer while being a top warrior but if it's your SIL, I doubt you would be so much affected by it.(BTW in Bhasa's play KarnaBharam has a better relationship between Shalya n Karna-- There Shalya seems to the bff of Karna instead of Duryodhan, maybe it's not fictional angle, perhaps back then they had some other source from which he took this angle)

Anyhow otherwise Somehow this version doesn't match our Indian versions at all

Aside if Shalya was actually their FIL, why did he need a cover-up to support his own SILs? Anyone would prefer son in laws(that too two son in laws not just one) over nephews.

Yes your other point does seem more logical. Those Kshatriyas were weight on earth

About Shalya he would have not wanted his brother's son in law to have an important kingdom to themselves as it would lower his stake as the contender of the ruler, so he supported Kauravas instead, but needed a cover up to go against his nephews

Understood about Devika confusion. I guess coronation didn't happen else they wouldn't have settled for half a state under HP guidance. So Maybe yes then Yudhishtir married Devika after Draupadi. But then why was Prativindhya lost in Ekchakranagri.....

Thinking of it Pandavas married multiple people to get support of more and more states which was a great plan started by perhaps Arjun n continued by all Pandavas.

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So why didn't Duryodhan or Kauravas try to have more marriages to garner support from various kingdoms

Widow remarriage is brushed under the carpet in the epic and puranas. But it was pretty common.

Ulupi was a childless widow, She is supposed to be Takshk's sister in law. but our version avoids this information.

After Santanu's death Satyavati recieves marriage proposal of King Ugrayudha. But Bhishma kills him so that Ugrayudha does not take over Hastinapur and gives his kingdom PAnchal to Prishata Drupad's father. Prishata was Ugrayudha's cousin.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Thankyou dear that explains a lot. I still would like to understand how this Shalya was tricked to support Kauravas narrative came from. That actually is definitely a cover-up. I mean if gaining support by treachery was so easy, why didn't they try it with Panchal too n everyone who supported Pandavas they definitely had more money to waste than Pandavas

Had Karna listened Shalya's advice n used nagastra properly probably we would have been hearing a pro Kaurav Mahabharata today (to be very honest I prefer Duryodhan over Yudhishtir both as a human as well as a king just that the support of Yudi like Bheem n Arjun, Krishna n twins were better persons than Dury's support like Karna)

Krishna married daughters of his aunts (father's sisters) that's cross cousin marriage n definitely allowed, Arjun Subhadra and Sahdev Vijaya were also cross cousin. Parallel cousins are children of two sisters or two brothers that I think isn't allowed. So I felt Shishupal's sister could be from a different wife

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Thankyou dear that explains a lot. I still would like to understand how this Shalya was tricked to support Kauravas narrative came from. That actually is definitely a cover-up. I mean if gaining support by treachery was so easy, why didn't they try it with Panchal too n everyone who supported Pandavas they definitely had more money to waste than Pandavas

Had Karna listened Shalya's advice n used nagastra properly probably we would have been hearing a pro Kaurav Mahabharata today (to be very honest I prefer Duryodhan over Yudhishtir both as a human as well as a king just that the support of Yudi like Bheem n Arjun, Krishna n twins were better humans than Dury's support like Karna)

Krishna married daughters of his aunts (father's sisters) that's cross cousin marriage n definitely allowed, Arjun Subhadra and Sahdev Vijaya were also cross cousin. Parallel cousins are children of two sisters or two brothers that I think isn't allowed. So I felt Shishupal's sister could be from a different wife