~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 4

Oh, I don't understand Hindi too well, so didn't get the charity part 😆.

@Deepika You might want to look up what Krishna says to Panchali. Something about moving mountains and making stars fall if he failed her 😆 Also, something about doing whatever her husband could do. I doubt Rukmini or any of the other queens imagined it was charity. No wife would. It got to the point Satyabhama arrived and tried to pick a fight with Panchali over Krishna.

Eternal friendship with Arjuna notwithstanding, Krishna magnificently used his friend to do what he promised Panchali. I bet even Arjuna didn't imagine it was charity.😆

Ok after reading all the discussions, putting forward my POV.

I don't think Krishna was interested in Kuru demolition, but practically nothing suggests that he wanted Yudhishtir on imperial throne either.

He wanted Pandavas support, I don't think only Arjuna would have been of any use to him or even to Drupad, because Arjuna was never against Drona even after marriage with Panchali, even after Drona's silence in dice hall, even when he fought from the opposite party, even

after Drona being involved in his son's death.

Forget Drona, he never even attacked Uttar Panchal after separating out from Hastinapur, I am sure Drupad would have wanted to get back his land.

Even if Krishnaji hadn't anticipated so much of a Guru Bhakti from Arjun, yet it is impossible to believe that he wouldn't have got a hint that Arjun is of no use against Drona or Bheeshm

He definitely wanted Yudhishtir n BANS to be successful so that he has a very strong ally in the Bharatvarsh politics (Drupad despite being a friendly state to him never supported him against Jarasangh so he couldn't be so trust worthy)

He might have been personally close to Arjun and Panchali but for having a strong foothold in Indian politics he needed the entire Pandavas support. He wanted them to win against Kauravas and take entire Indraprasth+Hastinapur, because he knew post war Pandavas would become like disciples to him and agree to his instructions (maybe except Panchali and Sahdev where the latter was hardly heard anyway). He went extra miles to the level of risking his life to ensure their win. (I do think the injustice to Panchali was an additional cause for his personal attachment to the war results and justice)

However he never discarded the probability of Kauravas win either, never did he want to have enimity with them(I don't think he ever had that) despite them having supported Jarasangh in his attacks on Mathura. He already had many enemies and definitely didn't want more of them, he wanted at least a cordial (if not very close) relations with them. Samb's attack on Lakshmana gave him exactly that opportunity, his adopted son was now married to the daughter of Kaurav Crownprince/king. He further strengthened the bond by giving Narayani Sena to Duryodhan. Had Kauravas won and Krishna survived, he would definitely not have additional enemies in the country. Even after his death, there was not much fear for Pradyumna from Hastinapur/Kauravas

The night 18, I think was a shocker to even Krishna, he never could have imagined Ashwathama to go to such levels of innocent massacre, especially since Kripacharya was still alive. He had taken Pandavas and Satyaki away only for the celebration of Victory and nothing else.

However after the massacre, he did realize that now even Panchali has got aloof of royal politics after the death of her brothers, sons and father(she even stopped working as a finance minister of state post the war), he therefore took the opportunity to somehow convince Yudhishtir and BANS to appoint his nephew's son as the heir instead of the progeny of Yudhishtir, who would get some vassal states and would be protected by Parikshit.

Getting Yudhishtir the imperial throne was never an objective of Krishna, he didn't anticipat this would happen, so when Yudhishtir started the Ashwamedh, he didn't support it, neither did he allow the horse to pass through his state, he didn't want to be a vassal to anyone including Pandavas, but he couldn't stop them either, because his personal home was itself not stable because different factions.

When stayabhama needs to ask panchali what should she do improve her relationship with krishna. One really does not needs any other proof to know how important panchali was to him

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Ok after reading all the discussions, putting forward my POV.

I don't think Krishna was interested in Kuru demolition, but practically nothing suggests that he wanted Yudhishtir on imperial throne either.

He wanted Pandavas support, I don't think only Arjuna would have been of any use to him or even to Drupad, because Arjuna was never against Drona even after marriage with Panchali, even after Drona's silence in dice hall, even when he fought from the opposite party, even

after Drona being involved in his son's death.

Forget Drona, he never even attacked Uttar Panchal after separating out from Hastinapur, I am sure Drupad would have wanted to get back his land.

Even if Krishnaji hadn't anticipated so much of a Guru Bhakti from Arjun, yet it is impossible to believe that he wouldn't have got a hint that Arjun is of no use against Drona or Bheeshm

He definitely wanted Yudhishtir n BANS to be successful so that he has a very strong ally in the Bharatvarsh politics (Drupad despite being a friendly state to him never supported him against Jarasangh so he couldn't be so trust worthy)

He might have been personally close to Arjun and Panchali but for having a strong foothold in Indian politics he needed the entire Pandavas support. He wanted them to win against Kauravas and take entire Indraprasth+Hastinapur, because he knew post war Pandavas would become like disciples to him and agree to his instructions (maybe except Panchali and Sahdev where the latter was hardly heard anyway). He went extra miles to the level of risking his life to ensure their win. (I do think the injustice to Panchali was an additional cause for his personal attachment to the war results and justice)

However he never discarded the probability of Kauravas win either, never did he want to have enimity with them(I don't think he ever had that) despite them having supported Jarasangh in his attacks on Mathura. He already had many enemies and definitely didn't want more of them, he wanted at least a cordial (if not very close) relations with them. Samb's attack on Lakshmana gave him exactly that opportunity, his adopted son was now married to the daughter of Kaurav Crownprince/king. He further strengthened the bond by giving Narayani Sena to Duryodhan. Had Kauravas won and Krishna survived, he would definitely not have additional enemies in the country. Even after his death, there was not much fear for Pradyumna from Hastinapur/Kauravas

The night 18, I think was a shocker to even Krishna, he never could have imagined Ashwathama to go to such levels of innocent massacre, especially since Kripacharya was still alive. He had taken Pandavas and Satyaki away only for the celebration of Victory and nothing else.

However after the massacre, he did realize that now even Panchali has got aloof of royal politics after the death of her brothers, sons and father(she even stopped working as a finance minister of state post the war), he therefore took the opportunity to somehow convince Yudhishtir and BANS to appoint his nephew's son as the heir instead of the progeny of Yudhishtir, who would get some vassal states and would be protected by Parikshit.

Getting Yudhishtir the imperial throne was never an objective of Krishna, he didn't anticipat this would happen, so when Yudhishtir started the Ashwamedh, he didn't support it, neither did he allow the horse to pass through his state, he didn't want to be a vassal to anyone including Pandavas, but he couldn't stop them either, because his personal home was itself not stable because different factions.

@Bold. Pls see citation at top of the page 4. Krishna discussed Ashwatthama's plan with Pandavas, Vyasa, Gandhari, and Dhritharashtra. They went away because they thought PANDAVAS were in danger, no one else. Celebration was a guide. They didn't imagine Ashwatthama would attack others, instead.

That'll teach me to go into a debate without checking citations . All I needed to do was read, and the proof was right there EVERYONE knew what Ashwatthama was planning, not just Krishna.

Well, at least it got thread 1 to 151 pages 😆

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

😆

She is saying if Krishna wanted Panchal's support so badly, he didn't need to go through Arjuna. Krishna could've simply married Panchali which would've been a more solid connection, and he could've married Subhadra to Arjuna to get him that way.

This theory makes no sense is the bottomline.

Arjuna was never the intended groom for anyone involved in Panchali swayamvara. It was always Yudhishtira.

I definitely know what is happening on this forum from past few days , coz I keep reading d post , sadly I read those posts also which get edited later .

After reading those rubbish post only I today posted or tried to give hint how would be panchali's life by marry krishna.

I not pointing at u definitely thou r thoughts dont match but u had always been clear in ur thoughts .

Regarding arjun , he was d only reason Panchali's entry , no arjun no Panchali no mahabharat.

If someone else could was able 2 defeat drupad arjun was needed only . Duryodhana & his brothers tried first.

Drona can but he dint wanted himself

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

I definitely know what is happening on this forum from past few days , coz I keep reading d post , sadly I read those posts also which get edited later .

After reading those rubbish post only I today posted or tried to give hint how would be panchali's life by marry krishna.

I not pointing at u definitely thou r thoughts dont match but u had always been clear in ur thoughts .

Regarding arjun , he was d only reason Panchali's entry , no arjun no Panchali no mahabharat.

If someone else could was able 2 defeat drupad arjun was needed only . Duryodhana & his brothers tried first.

Drona can but he dint wanted himself

What rubbish post are we talking about here?? Can you tell directly.

Panchali is anyday more important to the plot line than arjuna. She was the female protagonist while arjuna was not the male protagonist

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

I absolutely don't like such condensing tone for panchali TO BE Very HONEST.

And what s with ehsaan thingy. How important panchali was to krishna can easily be concluded if one actually attempt to read Mahabharata.

And i was just giving my opinion plus there are many things throughout the text that suggest that there was nothing stopping krishna from marrying krishnaa had it not bern for various circumstances

Plus this is purely my opinion. I think we can respect that atleast

I don't think Drupad would have anywhere been interested in getting his daughter married to Krishna

Drupad was a proud king, his didn't even acknowledge Dronacharya as a friend, what makes you think he would have accepted Krishna who was called a coward (Ranchhor), usurper, murderer, enemy of the most powerful king of the region

He himself wasn't even a king and the system at his land was not monarchy but kind of republican system

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Bold. Pls see citation at top of the page 4. Krishna discussed Ashwatthama's plan with Pandavas, Vyasa, Gandhari, and Dhritharashtra. They went away because they thought PANDAVAS were in danger, no one else. Celebration was a guide. They didn't imagine Ashwatthama would attack others, instead.

Why wouldn't Ashwathama attack others though? I am sorry I had missed that point, but it was Very stupid of them to believe that they wouldn't attack others