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i still want to know when upapandanvas happened in star bharatš¤£they all magically appear when the whole world knows their parents can write a epic on social distancingš¤£
i still want to know when upapandanvas happened in star bharatš¤£they all magically appear when the whole world knows their parents can write a epic on social distancingš¤£
Originally posted by: deepikagupta9
@preet
Today I got a point to prove my point , duryodhana friendship was not really true with karn .
In starbharat krishna said correct to karn , dury just kept karn with him coz of his anger 4 arjun
After accepting karn , duryodhana dint made any changes in society or related caste system.
In StarBharat Duryodhan was an out and out negative guy, he definitely took Karna as a weapon, as Ahem had said this Karna's character was based on Mrityunjay, where Duryodhan was just using Karna. What Krishna here said to Karna was true as per Star Bharat but not as per the Epic.
When I said Duryodhan was a true friend to Karna, I said it about the Epic/Aitihasic Duryodhan and not StarDury.
The epic Duryodhan had been friendly to Karna since DronAshram, when no one actually took Karna to be at par with Arjun, Dury himself being a kid could have never understood it on his own. By then the Karna's anger to Arjun wasn't very clearly apparent either. He just was a supporter to Dury.
After the Lakshagriha, Duryodhan and all felt that Pandavas were dead, which means no Arjun or hos threat, hence in such situation if Karna was only a response to Arjun for Duryodhan, Duryodhan would have side tracked Karna(if not completely abandoned him), afterall Karna's hatred for Arjun was not of any use now, but Duryodhan never did that, even during those days Karna remained in the innermost circle of Duryodhan and the closest confidant..
There was at least twice that Karna lost to Pandavas- once after Draupadi Swayamwar and once to Bheem during Pandavas Rajsuya Yagya. Anyone could now understand that even if Karna had anger towards Arjun, that was no use to Duryodhan since Karna was not a match to Arjun. Why keep him close then? Yet Duryodhan did that. If it was only hatred for Arjun that counted, the sufferers of KhandavDahan and especially Takshak was a better option than Karna
During the Gowsha Yatra, Karna escaped for life (he had his Kawatch Kundal by then so killing him was difficult) leaving Duryodhan (his overlord) fend the enemies and probably die. Duryodhan was not just Karna's friend but also his overlord, protection of Duryodhan was a duty of Karna at which he failed. But when Karna returned (after Duryodhan was saved by Bheem Arjun) and said that he is happy to see Duryodhan alive (he actually said that he had lost all hopes that Duryodhan can survive), Duryodhan didn't charge him at all, not even once did he raise this point of betrayal, as if that didn't matter to him even a trifle. Even after that he trusted Karna with most important commanding roles over Bheeshm, Drona, Ashwathama or Kripacharya and always projected him as the second man in Hastinapur after himself.
If Karna's anger was the only reason for Duryodhan's friendship to him, it should have actually altered by now, Duryodhan would have felt that this man could betray him the moment he gets a chance to better Arjun in some other way. Karna's hatred towards Arjun should have actually become toxic for Duryodhan after this. But Karna remained equally dear to Duryodhan even now
In Virat war the way Arjun defeated Karna, nearly single handedly with Uttar while Karna had huge army and Chariot riders with him, made it completely clear that Karna with his anger is of no use to Duryodhan against Arjun. Still Duryodhan's feelings didn't change for Karna not even mildly. Just tell me one reason why carry a man with anger for your enemy when he is not even near to the enemy in strength.
And finally if we want to believe that Duryodhan still had hopes against hopes that probably in the final battle Karna with his anger will outshine Arjun and was hence carrying him, then that is shattered by the fact that Karna denied to fight under Bheeshm. Till that time Bheeshm was being considered invincible, people thought Bheeshm would be till the end of the war. What use would Karna be for Duryodhan now? Forget a person who was carrying a Arjun hatred filled Karna with him for using him against Arjun, even a genuine friend might have issues from a friend who denies to support you at the last moment, because in majority real friendships too there is some amount of selfishness, but here Duryodhan immidiately agreed to his decision and still kept Karna as close to himself as ever.
Multiple examples across the epic shows how selfless the friendship of Duryodhan was towards Karna. And there is nothing to show that he was just using him but since serials have to show Duryodhan as villian, he can't have anything good or genuine in him, so they uselessly make him an opportunist using Karna. We must remember that Duryodhan wasn't a character that he would be unidimensional, he was a human who would have different feelings for different people.
**********ā ************"""""**ā
I am slightly confused as to what point you mentioned about the proof, but what I could understand was that you meant to say that Duryodhan wasn't a true friend to Karna since he didn't do anything for caste upliftment or didn't bring any change in the society.
In this regard, I would just like to say, there is nothing to suggest that Duryodhan was aiming to bring change in the society (Like the Pativartannnn of Surya Putra Karna), and I don't think he needed to do so to be a true friend to Karna, because Karna himself was not thinking on those lines.
Sutas weren't a downtrodden caste as the TV serials show, they are a lesser sub caste of Kshatriyas (born to pure Kshtriya dad and Brahmin moms, and of course their descandents). They enjoyed nearly all the advantages in the society like the upper castes. Keechak and Queen Sudeshna of Matasya desh were both Sutas and the entire state feared them.
Going by HV, Karna's foster family were actually from the royal lineage of AngaPradesh. Why should Duryodhan try for caste upliftment for his friendship?
Forget Duryodhan, even Karna was hell of a casteist, just read his and Shalya convo during Karna Parva, on how despised his words are for those from low caste. How he says that everyone should follow the duties of his caste
Duryodhan and Karna both called Vidur Kshattak (casteist remark) to Vidur who had a Shudra mom and a Kshatriya dad.
Neither of them had any intention to bring such societal changes
Anyone watched Arpit and Rohit's live? That was an interesting one with all the talks about Mahabharat and all.
i still want to know when upapandanvas happened in star bharatš¤£they all magically appear when the whole world knows their parents can write a epic on social distancingš¤£
They did Social distancing ka heightsš¤£. Imagine sitting on a less space wala throne and still maintaining 12 inch distanceš¤£
I just saw this pic in Insta
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
In StarBharat Duryodhan was an out and out negative guy, he definitely took Karna as a weapon, as Ahem had said this Karna's character was based on Mrityunjay, where Duryodhan was just using Karna. What Krishna here said to Karna was true as per Star Bharat but not as per the Epic.
When I said Duryodhan was a true friend to Karna, I said it about the Epic/Aitihasic Duryodhan and not StarDury.
The epic Duryodhan had been friendly to Karna since DronAshram, when no one actually took Karna to be at par with Arjun, Dury himself being a kid could have never understood it on his own. By then the Karna's anger to Arjun wasn't very clearly apparent either. He just was a supporter to Dury.
After the Lakshagriha, Duryodhan and all felt that Pandavas were dead, which means no Arjun or hos threat, hence in such situation if Karna was only a response to Arjun for Duryodhan, Duryodhan would have side tracked Karna(if not completely abandoned him), afterall Karna's hatred for Arjun was not of any use now, but Duryodhan never did that, even during those days Karna remained in the innermost circle of Duryodhan and the closest confidant..
There was at least twice that Karna lost to Pandavas- once after Draupadi Swayamwar and once to Bheem during Pandavas Rajsuya Yagya. Anyone could now understand that even if Karna had anger towards Arjun, that was no use to Duryodhan since Karna was not a match to Arjun. Why keep him close then? Yet Duryodhan did that. If it was only hatred for Arjun that counted, the sufferers of KhandavDahan and especially Takshak was a better option than Karna
During the Gowsha Yatra, Karna escaped for life (he had his Kawatch Kundal by then so killing him was difficult) leaving Duryodhan (his overlord) fend the enemies and probably die. Duryodhan was not just Karna's friend but also his overlord, protection of Duryodhan was a duty of Karna at which he failed. But when Karna returned (after Duryodhan was saved by Bheem Arjun) and said that he is happy to see Duryodhan alive (he actually said that he had lost all hopes that Duryodhan can survive), Duryodhan didn't charge him at all, not even once did he raise this point of betrayal, as if that didn't matter to him even a trifle. Even after that he trusted Karna with most important commanding roles over Bheeshm, Drona, Ashwathama or Kripacharya and always projected him as the second man in Hastinapur after himself.
If Karna's anger was the only reason for Duryodhan's friendship to him, it should have actually altered by now, Duryodhan would have felt that this man could betray him the moment he gets a chance to better Arjun in some other way. Karna's hatred towards Arjun should have actually become toxic for Duryodhan after this. But Karna remained equally dear to Duryodhan even now
In Virat war the way Arjun defeated Karna, nearly single handedly with Uttar while Karna had huge army and Chariot riders with him, made it completely clear that Karna with his anger is of no use to Duryodhan against Arjun. Still Duryodhan's feelings didn't change for Karna not even mildly. Just tell me one reason why carry a man with anger for your enemy when he is not even near to the enemy in strength.
And finally if we want to believe that Duryodhan still had hopes against hopes that probably in the final battle Karna with his anger will outshine Arjun and was hence carrying him, then that is shattered by the fact that Karna denied to fight under Bheeshm. Till that time Bheeshm was being considered invincible, people thought Bheeshm would be till the end of the war. What use would Karna be for Duryodhan now? Forget a person who was carrying a Arjun hatred filled Karna with him for using him against Arjun, even a genuine friend might have issues from a friend who denies to support you at the last moment, because in majority real friendships too there is some amount of selfishness, but here Duryodhan immidiately agreed to his decision and still kept Karna as close to himself as ever.
Multiple examples across the epic shows how selfless the friendship of Duryodhan was towards Karna. And there is nothing to show that he was just using him but since serials have to show Duryodhan as villian, he can't have anything good or genuine in him, so they uselessly make him an opportunist using Karna. We must remember that Duryodhan wasn't a character that he would be unidimensional, he was a human who would have different feelings for different people.
**********ā ************"""""**ā
I am slightly confused as to what point you mentioned about the proof, but what I could understand was that you meant to say that Duryodhan wasn't a true friend to Karna since he didn't do anything for caste upliftment or didn't bring any change in the society.
In this regard, I would just like to say, there is nothing to suggest that Duryodhan was aiming to bring change in the society (Like the Pativartannnn of Surya Putra Karna), and I don't think he needed to do so to be a true friend to Karna, because Karna himself was not thinking on those lines.
Sutas weren't a downtrodden caste as the TV serials show, they are a lesser sub caste of Kshatriyas (born to pure Kshtriya dad and Brahmin moms, and of course their descandents). They enjoyed nearly all the advantages in the society like the upper castes. Keechak and Queen Sudeshna of Matasya desh were both Sutas and the entire state feared them.
Going by HV, Karna's foster family were actually from the royal lineage of AngaPradesh. Why should Duryodhan try for caste upliftment for his friendship?
Forget Duryodhan, even Karna was hell of a casteist, just read his and Shalya convo during Karna Parva, on how despised his words are for those from low caste. How he says that everyone should follow the duties of his caste
Duryodhan and Karna both called Vidur Kshattak (casteist remark) to Vidur who had a Shudra mom and a Kshatriya dad.
Neither of them had any intention to bring such societal changes
Remember u once asked what qualities made u like raavan ? I listed out some
That duryodhana actually never did anything 4 d society & caste system.
I just wanted 2 say yes it not good to compare both , but when I see d comparison of raavan with duryodhana on other platforms u find it baseless coz raavan is more stronger than duryodhana
I don't find anything which can be learned from duryodhana & his gang but despite being d villain & having unlimited crimes in his name still people praise raavan .
I actually remembered some one mentioned innd forum duryodhana wanted 2 change society , maybe I m wrong sorry.
Originally posted by: deepikagupta9
Remember u once asked what qualities made u like raavan ? I listed out some
That duryodhana actually never did anything 4 d society & caste system.
I just wanted 2 say yes it not good to compare both , but when I see d comparison of raavan with duryodhana on other platforms u find it baseless coz raavan is more stronger than duryodhana
I don't find anything which can be learner from duryodhana & his gang but despite being d villain & having unlimited crimes in his name still people praise raavan .
But how is that related to whether or not Duryodhan was a true friend to Karna? Duryodhan undoubtedly was a great and selfless friend.
Duryodhan didn't do anything for caste system and nor did Ravan. Why were they expected to do anything for the caste system? (Duryodhan wanted to change society claim is from Ajaya, I guess you took it there)
Ravan was stronger than Duryodhan no doubt but he definitely wasn't a better human. People praise Ravan n Duryodhan both, and I really don't find any reason for it.
Both were normal humans with some good and more bad qualities (by qualities I mean behavioural & humane aspects and not skills- Ravana definitely was more skilful)
Both felt they had their reasons to do what they did and were satisfied with their actions
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
But how is that related to whether or not Duryodhan was a true friend to Karna? Duryodhan undoubtedly was a great and selfless friend
Duryodhan didn't do anything for caste system and nor did Ravan. Why were they expected to do anything for the caste system?
Ravan was stronger than Duryodhan no doubt but he definitely wasn't a better human. People praise Ravan n Duryodhan both, and I really don't find any reason for it.
I don't exactly remember that day when we having conversations I said something about duryodhana being selfish & using others 4 his benefits & u denied giving shusharma example & I say I will prove it aise hi kuch tha.
I don't said raavan was better person is was worst no doubt in that but did read about raavan he did a lot 4 his own people, regarding duryodhana I never heard praises 4 him . Raavan is being praised 4 his good qualities & his achievements sadly duryodhana don't have any achieve ment
Maybe I misunderstood sorry
Like in starbharat it was shown duryodhana was staking his companions like vikarn, karn, dussashan , ashwatthama also against pandavas & even his wife Bhanumati. As originally he dint staked any of his companions
What if it was duryodhana who loose in dice game even himself like what happened with Pandavas ?
I read somewhere Yudi accepted this dice game in order 2 win Hastinapur ( I can be wrong)
We all know what happened ? I just want 2 discuss what if opposite happened in dice game , thou I know Yudi was 2 adharshvadi .
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