Originally posted by: CaptainSpark
Sarcasm? 😆
No
I get what you are saying
I was pointing towards the addition in the conversation could have been because if you read it in Hindi then it's a religious text, it is possible Draupadi said some of it and didn't say most of it.
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
The point is that Panchali NEVER behaved the way she claimed in the conversation. She knew it, the Pandavas knew it, Satyabhama knew it, Kunti knew it, Vyasa knew it.
She contradicted Yudshtira quite frequently and a couple of times in public though not in front of the enemy. To the point she called him a drunk and an addict to a servant (dice hall) and lunatic (after war).
She frequently derided the rest of the Pandavas and called them lunatic also.
All that stuff about taking care of husbands? She actually took good care of the empire as per other characters in the text (Vidura, Yudishtira, Suyodhana). Pandavas' personal comforts were not something she had much hand in in. Case in point: after obtaining akshaya patra, Yudhishitra was the one who cooked for the whole entourage. She simply stood at the door and watched. Not that I'm saying she should've cooked. The point is she really didn't pay much attention to them according to rest of text.
Kunti's message to Pandavas via Krishna actually included instructions for Arjuna and Nakula to follow Panchali's path, not the other way around. Bheema already did, and Sahdev had own brain. Yudhishtira was called a coward by Kunti. So Kunti definitely didn't teach Panchali to be subservient. Even today, which MIL do we know who will tell her grown sons to follow in DIL's path?
Vyasa bluntly called her haughty toward Yudhishtira.
Also, she didn't stay with Pandavas out of wifely obligation. She stayed because the exile contract of the 2nd dice game was for Pandavas AND Panchali. Afterward, she said SHE would go to war regardless of what the rest decided. And she probably could because almost the entirety of Pandava army was made up of Panchal and its allies. Even Krishna might have gone along if that actually happened.
After war, she taunted the heck out of Yudhishtira and actually said no matter what happened, SHE had decided to live.
In fact, according to a version of Nepali Mahabharata, she did leave them after war. Even BORI considers Nepali and Kashmiri versions more authentic than the rest.
To call her a woman of her times is to dismiss what she was, I feel.
I NEVER called panchali a woman of her time and I believe that panchali was ahead of her time . And I truly believe that panchali was haughty and did mock her husbands especially yudhishtir from time to time to remind them of what she had endured in the dice hall. And that is what I admire the most about panchali that she didn't fit the typical sati savitri stereotype of the Indian mythology.
And the kunti teaching her these practices is mentioned in the same given text and not my personal opinion.
But I don't think this was sarcasm cause even after satyabhama clarified that it was a joke panchali still continues telling her about how she managed her household.
Tbh this conversation does seem to come out of nowhere so maybe this is just an addition to make her fit the stereotypes of the heroines of Indian mythology cause some people just can't accept the fact that women in that age and even now can be so haughty and mock her husbands and her elders no matter how her husbands or elders were.
Btw this also the reason why I am defending satyabhama because she herself has been described as very strong willed and courageous and I think it is unfair that you call one woman great and the other one bratty though they have similar nature and I know that panchali endured a lot in her life and deserves the admiration but just because satyabhama didn't go through similar circumstances doesn't mean you label her rude and bratty.
Personally I love both panchali and satyabhama because I am admire strong women who knew what they want and knew that their voice mattered .
I NEVER called panchali a woman of her time and I believe that panchali was ahead of her time . And I truly believe that panchali was haughty and did mock her husbands especially yudhishtir from time to time to remind them of what she had endured in the dice hall. And that is what I admire the most about panchali that she didn't fit the typical sati savitri stereotype of the Indian mythology.
And the kunti teaching her these practices is mentioned in the same given text and not my personal opinion.
But I don't think this was sarcasm cause even after satyabhama clarified that it was a joke panchali still continues telling her about how she managed her household.
Tbh this conversation does seem to come out of nowhere so maybe this is just an addition to make her fit the stereotypes of the heroines of Indian mythology cause some people just can't accept the fact that women in that age and even now can be so haughty and mock her husbands and her elders no matter how her husbands or elders were.
Btw this also the reason why I am defending satyabhama because she herself has been described as very strong willed and courageous and I think it is unfair that you call one woman great and the other one bratty though they have similar nature and I know that panchali endured a lot in her life and deserves the admiration but just because satyabhama didn't go through similar circumstances doesn't mean you label her rude and bratty.
Personally I love both panchali and satyabhama because I am admire strong women who knew what they want and knew that their voice mattered .
1st para is misconception. Panchali didn't mock anyone to remind them of the assault on her. She mocked them because they deserved it at that point.
1) the conversation with Yudhishtira - he blamed it all on destiny, and she gave a discourse on karma and dharma. He in turn called her an atheist for believing in karma. Bheema supported her. Yudhishtira opposed both. then Vyasa came and said exactly what Panchali said, and Yudhishtira agreed.
2) Virat Parva. She went to the king for help with Keechak. Virat refused. Yudhishtira told her to return and ENDURE IT for her husband's sake. She then went to Bheema and said a woman married to Yudhishtira was fated to despair.
3) She mocked Arjuna for being comfortable in his life as Brihannala while she was going through all this.
4) After war, she bluntly called Yudhishtira a lunatic in public and the Pandavas also lunatics for enabling him.
@Bold. Do you have citation?
@Red. The conversation before Satyabhama's apology was sarcasm. Otherwise, she wouldn't have felt the need to apologize. Why would anyone apologize if it were a simple answer? The part after was about how Satyabhama should behave with her husband. Most wives will not like to be told that by their husbands' female friend, especially when that woman is younger.
@Blue. No way. Satyabhama was called by jealous and childish in most Krishna texts. It is not my opinion, it was the authors (Dwaipayana, Suka, or whoever else). She was pretty nasty to Rukmini. Panchali on the other hand, was called knowledgeable, working from dawn to dusk, and intelligent by Vyasa. Satyabhama's arrogance is not the same as Panchali's power. Childish tantrums of Satyabhama to get a tree in place of the flower Rukmini got cannot be equated to the forceful words of a woman prompting the annihilation of a land's elite because they forgot their karma and dharma.
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
That happened between Radha and Rukmini fans in the sister concern channel
Satya Rukmini fights would be dope too. Radha's origin is a result of the Bhakti movement and in my opinion fictional (no offence to anyone). But both Satya and Rukmini have some more chances to be proper wives of Krishna so it would be more fun 🤣
Originally posted by: Poorabhforever
Panchali was the most sorted individual. She was intelligent sweet compassionate hard working loving caring beautiful and above everything she was the great human being. I am sure she cared about all her husbands before the dice game she was not as rude to everyone as tv shows make her out to be. But at the same time i don't take her to be someone who preaches "mera pati mera devta h" and will do everything he says even after whatever they do to her. No sorry. She was no pushover. You cannot walk all over her.
Yeah caring is one thing and I am sure she cared and was not deliberately rude without any reason. However there's a difference between devoting your life to serving husbands and caring loving them as a normal wife would do. I think Panchali was the latter and that's good. The difference between her and others is she and Krishna never used dharma logic to justify something which is wrong. They knew that if something is wrong then it needs to be corrected. Vows, oaths, patriarchal idea of righteousness which allows a man to gamble his wife comes later. Justice is foremost.
No
I get what you are saying
I was pointing towards the addition in the conversation could have been because if you read it in Hindi then it's a religious text, it is possible Draupadi said some of it and didn't say most of it.
I don't know Hindi :( i mean i am unable to read properly but i know bengali and have read MB in bangla so i somehow get it 😆
Originally posted by: CaptainSpark
Yeah caring is one thing and I am sure she cared and was not deliberately rude without any reason. However there's a difference between devoting your life to serving husbands and caring loving them as a normal wife would do. I think Panchali was the latter and that's good. The difference between her and others is she and Krishna never used dharma logic to justify something which is wrong. They knew that if something is wrong then it needs to be corrected. Vows, oaths, patriarchal idea of righteousness which allows a man to gamble his wife comes later. Justice is foremost.
Yes that is what i meant. Panchali definitely cared for them but you can't expect her to be "In Love' or even devoted to people who gamble her away and watched as she was assaulted because of their misplaced sense of duty/dharm . She knew what was right and wrong. Probably even more than krishna did. These people were rulers who had the power to decide to normal peasants s course of life. What sets panchali apart and even krishna for that matter is she knew with great powers comes greater responsibilities and one should never back down to do their duty. Gambling away was certainly not one of them or even accepting it meekly. Nope my girl was not that. She knew better.
Originally posted by: Poorabhforever
Yes that is what i meant. Panchali definitely cared for them but you can't expect her to be "In Love' or even devoted to people who gamble her away and watched as she was assaulted because of their misplaced sense of duty/dharm . She knew what was right and wrong. Probably even more than krishna did. These people were rulers who had the power to decide to normal peasants s course of life. What sets panchali apart and even krishna for that matter is she knew with great powers comes greater responsibilities and one should never back down to do their duty. Gambling away was certainly not one of them or even accepting it meekly. Nope my girl was not that. She knew better.
Honestly she was quite patient with Yudhishthir and co. If someone argued with me like Bhishma or like Yudhi told me to stop drama when I talk about sexual assault I would throw coconuts at them. I would actually say she controlled her temper. 🤣
Originally posted by: CaptainSpark
I don't know Hindi :( i mean i am unable to read properly but i know bengali and have read MB in bangla so i somehow get it 😆
Someday We'll discuss this from a different perspective
There were two different stages in her life, one pre dice game and one post it.
Again a person's charachter is something that is their inherent nature.
Being devoted to some one. Fulfilling responsibilities in the best possible way not being rude and being humble does not mean being a door mat
Draupadi did all that she told Satyabhama before the dice game. That is how she became the thread that bound the Pandava family together.
That is why Subhadra and Abhimanyu loved her. And I am sure as did all the other co wives and their children and Pandavas and Kunti and the citizens of IP. And even dhaumya who tries to protect her from Jayadrath.
If she was haughty arrogant rude selfish jealous do you think anyone would love her and respect her the way they did.
Do you think she could command the respect that she did by treachery.
Most importantly Sarcasm never wins respect. People think they are being cool and smart by being sarcastic, but look at it from the perspective of the person bearing the brunt of it.
And in vanaparva too inspite of her anger at Pandavas, inspite of the gross injustice and humiliation she faced because of them she stood by them. She never was rude to them in front of others.
Yes Pandavas deserved more punishment than they got. They deserved every humiliation in the world for putting Draupadi through that misery. Yes they did not deserve her love.
But she loved them. That only makes her human infact a better human than them
If Draupadi had been sarcastic and haughty all her life with Yudhi..he would not have loved her.
Yes he gambled her, but he gambled his brothers and himself too.
Yes he did love her. So did all the other brothers.
Yes not to the extent she deserved. Yes she was not their priority. But she was loved and respected as much as Kunti was. Other wives were not.
Yes Satyabhama was being petty, insecure and jealous with her question.
But Draupadi was just being herself. Guiding Satyabhama with maturity that get rid of your pettyness and ego if you want to win love and respect of your husband.
Smart people handle pettiness with sarcasm. But better than smart people handle pettiness with maturity.
Draupadi was better than smart.
I do agree though that she and satyabhama were not close friends like she and subhadra were.
And you have the same reason. Subhadra was not petty or jealous or insecure. She had humility. She was not an egotist. And she fulfilled her responsibilties as a co wife to the best of her abilities.
She was like the woman Draupadi describes
comment:
p_commentcount