Why....
Havent we agreed
Yudhi's priority was peace more than draupadi
Bhim's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Nakul's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Arjun's priority was peace Yudhi, Bhishma and Drona more than draupadi
Only Sahdev had Draupadi as only priority
Sahadev was not a war monger. He had grown up without father too. He loved yudhi too. Bhishma was his grand father too drona was his guru too.
Draupadi is in the right here. Others are wrong. Peace is wrong in this situation. Bhishma and Drona were wrong. Yet instead of prioritizing justice for her YBAN care for others who were wrong. Then doesnt that prove my point. They didnt care for her enough. Only Sahadev did
Originally posted by: Chiillii
Why....
Havent we agreed
Yudhi's priority was peace more than draupadi
Bhim's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Nakul's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Arjun's priority was peace Yudhi, Bhishma and Drona more than draupadi
Only Sahdev had Draupadi as only priority
Sahadev was not a war monger. He had grown up without father too. He loved yudhi too. Bhishma was his grand father too drona was his guru too.
Draupadi is in the right here. Others are wrong. Peace is wrong in this situation. Bhishma and Drona were wrong. Yet instead of prioritizing justice for her YBAN care for others who were wrong. Then doesnt that prove my point. They didnt care for her enough. Only Sahadev did
I don't agree because I don't think Draupadi = War
Also Arjuna remembered Draupadi on his own, you said Bhima reminds him
And Arjuna didn't try to kill Draupadi's brother
Originally posted by: Chiillii
Why....
Havent we agreed
Yudhi's priority was peace more than draupadi
Bhim's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Nakul's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Arjun's priority was peace Yudhi, Bhishma and Drona more than draupadi
Only Sahdev had Draupadi as only priority
Sahadev was not a war monger. He had grown up without father too. He loved yudhi too. Bhishma was his grand father too drona was his guru too.
Draupadi is in the right here. Others are wrong. Peace is wrong in this situation. Bhishma and Drona were wrong. Yet instead of prioritizing justice for her YBAN care for others who were wrong. Then doesnt that prove my point. They didnt care for her enough. Only Sahadev did
But this would be true only if we believe Panchali wanted war for herself or even justice for herself. When she says forgiveness is not possible without repentance, that is not a woman who is wanting revenge. When she says it's the kshatriya duty to punish crimes, that's not a woman wanting war for herself. She lectures Krishna, Yudhishtira, Virat, and Krishna again on duties of rulers. She was truly talking as the empress in exile.
If we are looking at who agreed with her, then Sahdev among Pandavas. Plus, Krishna, Kunti, the Panchal brothers.
But the thread is about people caring for her. In that case, Arjuna among the Pandavas.
I said this to someone else:
The dice hall statement has been discussed to death, so I won't repeat it.
Arjuna didn't have to pretend to be a eunuch during incognito stay. He didn't have to be an archer, but he could've cleaned weapons. He could've worked with horses like Nakula. He took the disguise because Panchali needed a guard. They were just coming off the Jayadrath episode, remember? They'd have been insane to leave her alone inside the palace. Also, there is an invisible demon mentioned, attacking Keechaka. I think it was Arjuna.
Ladies, answer honestly, please. How many cis het men do you know who would renounce their manhood for you and publicly declare themselves eunuch?
Yes, Krishna cared for Panchali. Very much so. Yes, Dhrishtadyumna was in it for her. Yes, Shikhandi died in a war he didn't need to fight. Yes, Kunti wanted the war for her. Yes, Sahdev agreed with her assessment on need for war.
But let's nor discount what Arjuna did. He was willing to sacrifice himself but wanted to keep his loved ones alive. I think it's a very human thing to do.
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
But this would be true only if we believe Panchali wanted war for herself or even justice for herself. When she says forgiveness is not possible without repentance, that is not a woman who is wanting revenge. When she says it's the kshatriya duty to punish crimes, that's not a woman wanting war for herself. She lectures Krishna, Yudhishtira, Virat, and Krishna again on duties of rulers. She was truly talking as the empress in exile.
If we are looking at who agreed with her, then Sahdev among Pandavas. Plus, Krishna, Kunti, the Panchal brothers.
But the thread is about people caring for her. In that case, Arjuna among the Pandavas.
I said this to someone else:
The dice hall statement has been discussed to death, so I won't repeat it.
Arjuna didn't have to pretend to be a eunuch during incognito stay. He didn't have to be an archer, but he could've cleaned weapons. He could've worked with horses like Nakula. He took the disguise because Panchali needed a guard. They were just coming off the Jayadrath episode, remember? They'd have been insane to leave her alone inside the palace. Also, there is an invisible demon mentioned, attacking Keechaka. I think it was Arjuna.
Ladies, answer honestly, please. How many cis het men do you know who would renounce their manhood for you and publicly declare themselves eunuch?
Yes, Krishna cared for Panchali. Very much so. Yes, Dhrishtadyumna was in it for her. Yes, Shikhandi died in a war he didn't need to fight. Yes, Kunti wanted the war for her. Yes, Sahdev agreed with her assessment on need for war.
But let's nor discount what Arjuna did. He was willing to sacrifice himself but wanted to keep his loved ones alive. I think it's a very human thing to do.
There can be no doubt that Arjun cared about Draupadi just as Bheem did. Yudi I really think was more into himself and somehow was jealous of others (my view) Nakul well not much known about it
As a human Arjun was Great, as a husband too, but when there is a comparison between two husbands where one is ready to forget(not forgive) molesteration of his wife if the other party complies to their agreement, is not ready to kill those whose killing is necessary to ensure the evil doer is punished while the other has no interest in forgetting his wife's agony and wants punishment for the wrong doers (irrespective of what wife says in both conditions) I think the second wins by a margin
How come nobody mentioned Bheem? He did all the killing in the war, not to mention what he did to Dushashan and Duryodhan.
He didn't have the need to kill all brothers for land, even if he did there was no reason for the brutal death to Dushashan. His only importance in the epic is what he did to Draupadi. So obviously Bheem cared.
He did little things for her and those do show he cared as well. I am not sure if it is there in the epic but he dis fulfill her request and got her flowers from Kuber's garden. I also remember reading about his oaths about Duryodhan and Dushashan when former shows Drau his thigh. Also, he was upset because Drau had to be a maid as well. He can't be more clear about his love.
He was the one whom Draupadi approached not because he was the only one who could do it, but because she knew he would do it for her. She knew whom to go to.
Re from KMG, Bheem wanting to burn Yudhi hands-
"Bhima said,--'O Yudhishthira, gamblers have in their houses many women of loose character. They do not yet stake those women having kindness for them even. Whatever wealth and other excellent articles the king of Kasi gave, whatever, gems, animals, wealth, coats of mail and weapons that other kings of the earth gave, our kingdom, thyself and ourselves, have all been won by the foes. At all this my wrath was not excited for thou art our lord. This, however, I regard as a highly improper act--this act of staking Draupadi. This innocent girl deserveth not this treatment. Having obtained the Pandavas as her lords, it is for thee alone that she is being thus persecuted by the low, despicable, cruel, and mean-minded Kauravas. It is for her sake, O king, that my anger falleth on thee. I shall burn those hands of thine. Sahadeva, bring some fire."
'Arjuna hearing this, said,--'Thou hast never, O Bhimasena, before this uttered such words as these. Assuredly thy high morality hath been destroyed by these cruel foes. Thou shouldst not fulfil the wishes of the enemy. Practise thou the highest morality. Whom doth it behave to transgress his virtuous eldest brother? The king was summoned by the foe, and remembering the usage of the Kshatriyas, he played at dice against his will. That is certainly conducive to our great fame.
'Bhima said,--'If I had not known, O Dhananjaya, that the king had acted according to Kshatriya usage, then I would have, taking his hands together by sheer force, burnt them in a blazing fire."
A lot of people already spoke of Arjun. Technically i too was of the opinion that he didn't care, but i have read enough to change this and he did. Not repeat about Arjun as others have said the needful.
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
But this would be true only if we believe Panchali wanted war for herself or even justice for herself. When she says forgiveness is not possible without repentance, that is not a woman who is wanting revenge. When she says it's the kshatriya duty to punish crimes, that's not a woman wanting war for herself. She lectures Krishna, Yudhishtira, Virat, and Krishna again on duties of rulers. She was truly talking as the empress in exile.
If we are looking at who agreed with her, then Sahdev among Pandavas. Plus, Krishna, Kunti, the Panchal brothers.
But the thread is about people caring for her. In that case, Arjuna among the Pandavas.
I said this to someone else:
The dice hall statement has been discussed to death, so I won't repeat it.
Arjuna didn't have to pretend to be a eunuch during incognito stay. He didn't have to be an archer, but he could've cleaned weapons. He could've worked with horses like Nakula. He took the disguise because Panchali needed a guard. They were just coming off the Jayadrath episode, remember? They'd have been insane to leave her alone inside the palace. Also, there is an invisible demon mentioned, attacking Keechaka. I think it was Arjuna.
Ladies, answer honestly, please. How many cis het men do you know who would renounce their manhood for you and publicly declare themselves eunuch?
Yes, Krishna cared for Panchali. Very much so. Yes, Dhrishtadyumna was in it for her. Yes, Shikhandi died in a war he didn't need to fight. Yes, Kunti wanted the war for her. Yes, Sahdev agreed with her assessment on need for war.
But let's nor discount what Arjuna did. He was willing to sacrifice himself but wanted to keep his loved ones alive. I think it's a very human thing to do.
Then bheem cared too. Not Only arjuna
As i said either both of them or none. Because bheem killed kheechak. Bheem killed dusashan. Bheem always stood by drapaudi. So no arjuna is not the only one among the pandavas. Bheem deserves more to be on this list than arjuna ever does
Originally posted by: Chiillii
Why....
Havent we agreed
Yudhi's priority was peace more than draupadi
Bhim's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Nakul's priority was peace and Yudhi more than draupadi
Arjun's priority was peace Yudhi, Bhishma and Drona more than draupadi
Only Sahdev had Draupadi as only priority
Sahadev was not a war monger. He had grown up without father too. He loved yudhi too. Bhishma was his grand father too drona was his guru too.
Draupadi is in the right here. Others are wrong. Peace is wrong in this situation. Bhishma and Drona were wrong. Yet instead of prioritizing justice for her YBAN care for others who were wrong. Then doesnt that prove my point. They didnt care for her enough. Only Sahadev did
Are you being sarcastic 😆
Actually let me clarify my stand more than its about war or peace. Its about standing by your partner when she needs it the most. To Stand and support firmly her thought process even bheem supported her at many instances still i did not include him because when the time came to lend his undue to support to your wife and to your empress when she stands for justice and repentance. Clearly duryodhan and co had known then why was bheem begging to them?? And arjuna would rather fight with his own supporter for people who are always being loyal to others than support his partner are idea of justice.
Did bhism and drona tried to Save them from lakshagriha?? Anything after it?? Anything in dice hall?? Before the game?? Any voice lent for panchali?? No
Then why such extra love and care for people who are ever ready to stomp all over you if your cousin said so ??
People who cared means people who were genuinely affected by panchali s plight and who understood exactly why she wanted war people who stood by her need for justice. Krishna did kunti did sahadev did drishtdyum did but neither bheem nor arjuna even after so many years of marriage were able to understand her.
So either both of them will be included or neither.
Isn't standing by your partner important in a marriage ???
Ok. After all the debate. I am going to include arjuna but before that i will include bhim.
5) Bhim. - who stood by drapaudi . Panchali s mind and his strength and their immense faith in eachother made for a deadly combination.
Bhim supporting panchali need for justice and her words on forgiveness( citation on first page) says this to yudhishtra
Hearing these words of Yajnaseni, Bhimasena, sighing in wrath, approached the king and addressed him, saying, 'Walk, O monarch, in the customary path trodden by good men, (before thee) in respect of kingdoms. What do we gain by living in the asylum of ascetics, thus deprived of virtue, pleasure, and profit? It is not by virtue, nor by honesty, nor by might, but by unfair dice, that our kingdom hath been snatched by Duryodhana. Like a weak offal-eating jackal snatching the prey from mighty lions, he hath snatched away our kingdom. Why, O monarch, in obedience to the trite merit of sticking to a promise, dost thou suffer such distress, abandoning that wealth which is the source of both virtue and enjoyments? It was for thy carelessness, O king, that our kingdom protected by the wielder of the Gandiva and therefore, incapable of being wrested by Indra himself, was snatched from us in our very sight. It was for thee, O monarch, that, ourselves living, our prosperity was snatched away from us like a fruit from one unable to use his arms,
Further continues
thus, O monarch, one should regard virtue, wealth and pleasure one after another. One should not devote one self to virtue alone, nor regard wealth as the highest object of one's wishes, nor pleasure, but should ever pursue all three. The scriptures ordain that one should seek virtue in the morning, wealth at noon, and pleasure in the evening. The scriptures also ordain that one should seek pleasure in the first portion of life, wealth in the second, and virtue in the last. And, O thou foremost of speakers, they that are wise and fully conversant with proper division of time, pursue all three, virtue, wealth, and pleasure, dividing their time duly. O son of the Kuru race, whether independence of these (three), or their possession is the better for those that desire happiness, should be settled by thee after careful thought. And thou shouldst then, O king, unhesitatingly act either for acquiring them, or abandoning them all. For he who liveth wavering between the two doubtingly, leadeth a wretched life. It is well known that thy behaviour is ever regulated by virtue. Knowing this thy friends counsel thee to act. Gift, sacrifice, respect for the wise, study of the Vedas, and honesty, these, O king, constitute the highest virtue and are efficacious both here and hereafter. These virtues, however, cannot be attained by one that hath no
Another point where he stands by panchali
I alone, and Prativindhya's mother speak unto thee burning with grief. Whatever I speak unto thee is agreeable to all of them, for all of them plunged in distress, eagerly wish for battle. Then, O monarch, what more wretched a calamity can overtake us that our kingdom should be wrested from us by weak and contemptible foes and enjoyed by them? O king, from the weakness of thy disposition thou feelest shame in violating thy pledge. But, O slayer of foes, no one applaudeth thee for thus suffering such pain in consequence of the kindliness of thy disposition. Thy intellect, O king, seeth not the truth, like that of a foolish and ignorant person of high birth who hath
This is when sanjaya recalls bhim s pran against duryodhan in his conversation with dritrashtra
Thy sons, having dragged Draupadi, and thereby incensed the sons of Pandu, have brought this frightful and horrifying calamity upon themselves. Beholding Duryodhana showing both his thighs unto Draupadi, Bhima said with quivering lips, 'wretch! those thighs of thine will I smash with my fierce descending mace, on the expiration of thirteen years.'
Jaydharth part -
Jayadratha flying for his life upon beholding those two brothers with upraised arms, was sorely grieved and bolted off with speed and coolness. But the mighty and indignant Bhimasena, descending from his chariot, ran after him thus fleeing, and seized him by the hair of his head. And holding him high up in the air, Bhima thrust him on the ground with violence. And seizing the prince by the head, he knocked him about. And when the wretch recovered consciousness, he groaned aloud and wanted to get up on his legs. But that hero endued with mighty arms kicked him on the head. And Bhima pressed him on the breast with his knees as well as with his fists. And the prince thus belaboured, soon became insensible. Then Falguna dissuaded the wrathful Bhimasena from inflicting further chastisement on the prince, by reminding him of what Yudhishthira had said regarding (their sister) Dussala. But Bhima replied, saying, 'This sinful wretch hath done a cruel injury to Krishna, who never can bear such treatment. He, therefore, deserveth to die at hands! But what can I do? The king is always overflowing with mercy, and thou, too, art constantly putting obstacles in my way from a childish sense of virtue!' Having said these words, Vrikodara, with his crescent-shaped arrow, shaved the hair of the prince's head, heaving five tufts in as many places. Jayadratha uttered not a word at this. Then Vrikodara, addressing the foe said, 'If thou wishest to live, listen to me. O fool! I shall tell thee the means to attain that wish! In public assemblies and in open courts thou must say,--I am the slave of the Pandavas.--on this condition alone, I will pardon thee thy life! This is the customary rule of conquest on the field of battle.' Thus addressed and treated, king Jayadratha said to the mighty and fierce warrior who always looked awful, 'Be it so!' And he was trembling and senseless and begrimed with dust. Then Arjuna and Vrikodara, securing him with chains, thrust him into a chariot. And Bhima, himself mounting that chariot, and accompanied by Arjuna, drove towards the hermitage. And approaching Yudhishthira seated there, he placed Jayadratha in that condition before the king. And the king, smiling, told him to set the Sindhu prince at liberty. Then Bhima said unto the king, 'Do thou tell Draupadi that this wretch hath become the slave of the Pandavas.' Then his eldest brother said unto him affectionately, 'If thou hast any regard for us, do thou set this wretch at liberty!' And Draupadi too, reading the king's mind, said, 'Let him off! He hath become a slave of the king's and thou, too, hast disfigured him by leaving five tufts of hair on his head.
This part also shows how much panchali s words meant to bhima. He let go of jayadrath because panchali said sl. And even panchali always stood for justice over bllod thirst.
Keechak vadh part -
This tracked proves panchali s faith in bhima and also her intelligence in coming up with plan which bhima excuted. These two maid for a deadly combination.
comment:
p_commentcount