~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 117

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yagya is not just sitting at your home and doing a Yagya, once a Yagya is started at home, the soldiers are sent across kingdoms with a clear notice of their intention

If the king agrees to it, he honours the offer, welcomes them and gives huge gifts to the king performing the Yagya, if not then he fights with the kings army to decide

Once the entire country is covered (the area and number of states support needed varies with the kind of Yagya being done), the closing ceremony of the Yagya is done where all the kings who have accepted the intent is invited. They again gift the king and pledge there acceptance to the cause of the Yagya

Yes if one does Vajpaye Yagya in this way, he would become the Chakravarti Samrat or the Emperor

Oh Okay

Why didn’t Kauravas perform Vajpaye Yagya? What were they doing for 13 long years?

that, those three got together and discussed the matter. At that very moment,

Dvaipayana arrived there, in accordance with his wishes.’

188

Vaishampayana said, ‘As soon as they saw him, all the Pandavas and the greatly illustrious

son of Panchala18 stood up. All of them welcomed and paid their respects to the great-souled

Krishna.19 The great-minded one returned their greetings and asked about their welfare. He

then sat down on a radiant and golden seat. Instructed by Krishna, the one with infinite

energy, those greatest among men

20 also sat down on expensive seats. O lord of the people!

After some time, in sweet words, Parshata21 asked the great-souled one about Droupadi.

‘Drupada asked, “O fortunate lord! How can one woman become the wife of many, without

leading to sin? Please explain this to us in detail.” Vyasa replied, “This dharma has fallen into

disuse because it runs counter to the Vedas and common practice. But on this, I wish to hear

the opinions of each one of you

------

KMG puts in parenthesis that this Krishna is Vyasa. But Vyasa is not called the one with infinite energy.

Not only that:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01202.htm

Vaisampayana continued, 'After the sons of Pandu had been married, Hari (Krishna) sent unto them (as presents) various gold ornaments set with pearls and black gems (lapis lazuli). And Madhava (Krishna) also sent unto them costly robes manufactured in various countries, and many beautiful and soft blankets and hides of great value, and many costly beds and carpets and vehicles. He also sent them vessels by hundreds, set with gems and diamonds. And Krishna also gave them female servants by thousands, brought from various countries, and endued with beauty, youth and accomplishments and decked with every ornament. He also gave them many well-trained elephants brought from the country of Madra, and many excellent horses in costly harness, cars drawn by horses of excellent colours and large teeth. The slayer of Madhu, of immeasurable soul, also sent them coins of pure gold by crores upon crores in separate heaps. And Yudhishthira

p. 396

the just, desirous of gratifying Govinda, accepted all those presents with great joy

AND THIS IS WHEN VIDURA GOES TO PANCHAL TO INVITE THEM BACK:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01210.htm

Vaisampayana continued, 'Then Vasudeva said, 'I am of opinion that the Pandavas should go. But we should all abide by the opinion of king Drupada who is conversant with every rule of morality.'

Originally posted by: NoraSM

He left after it, He is not mentioned when they discuss polyandry with Drupad, Vyasa is mentioned there, Krishna is not mentioned during their marriage as well

Krishna is mentioned after marriage because he “sent” gifts to the newlyweds, He wasn’t present during negotiations or marriage

See my other post where Krishna is mentioned.

Unless, we believe every sentence has to contain him, or he left and returned for negotiations with Hastinapuri, he was there throughout.

If you would like to believe that, then Dhaumya left after marrying Yudhishtira to Panchali 😈😆. So no polyandry.🤣

So either Krishna didn't have to be mentioned in every sentence. Or if he did, then Dhaumya did, too, or there was no polyandry.

Then, the issue of Krishna actually HELPING them build Khandavaprastha cannot be ignored. The whole business of Krishna being outwitted by Vyada is illogical.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

That reminds me, Krishna actually spoke about asking his father but in the para he suggests abduction -

The one with the eyes of a lotus smilingly spoke these words, “How is it that the mind of one who lives in the forest is agitated by desire? O Partha! She is my sister and from

the same womb as Sarana.6 If your mind is set on her, I can speak to my father myself.” Arjuna replied, “She is Vasudeva’s daughter and Vasudeva’s sister. She is beautiful. How can I not be captivated? If this daughter of the Vrishni lineage, your sister, becomes my wife, I must

certainly have performed only good deeds. O Janardana!7 Tell me how I can obtain her. I will do everything that any man can.” Vasudeva said,

“O bull among men! A svayamvara8 is the form of marriage for kshatriyas. O Partha! But that is uncertain if one doesn’t know the inclination. Those who are learned in the ways of dharma say that for kshatriyas, who are warriors, abduction for marriage is permissible. O Arjuna! Therefore, abduct my beautiful sister. Who knows what she might do in a svayamvara?”

‘O king! Having thus decided on the course of action, Arjuna and Krishna then sent off swift men as messengers, to inform Dharmaraja in

Indraprastha of everything. On hearing, the mighty-armed Pandava9 agreed

___________________________________________

I think Krishna didn’t want to take any kind of risk and As you say Arjuna needed dowry too

how is vasudeva (krishna's father) & vasudeva (krishna himself) differentiated in the text. i mean the spelling used is same. unlike krishnaa used for draupadi & krishna used for krishna

Originally posted by: NoraSM

He left after it, He is not mentioned when they discuss polyandry with Drupad, Vyasa is mentioned there, Krishna is not mentioned during their marriage as well

Krishna is mentioned after marriage because he “sent” gifts to the newlyweds, He wasn’t present during negotiations or marriage

@ Nora

U once mentioned krishna helped Pandavas financially , it is mentioned anywhere ?

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Oh Okay

Why didn’t Kauravas perform Vajpaye Yagya? What were they doing for 13 long years?

Yaar performing Vajpaye Yagya is not easy, you need to be super powerful to do that, so that no one actually fights against you and if they do you are capable to defeat them. Not even Ramji did that. Very few rulers have done it.

Rajsuya is a different thing, kings are not much concerned whether or not a random state is sovereign, but Vajpeya means they are considering themselves a vassal, a territory to the main king, no one would want to let go their independence.

I don't think Kauravas were even near powerful to do that

In the thirteen years, Kauravas were strengthening their army, improving their support base, alliance, that's the reason why majority kings supported Kauravas.

Karna also defeated multiple smaller and mid sized Kingdoms to gain a lot of money(whether or not a proper Digvijay he did defeat many major kings to get riches) for Hastinapur- I am sure he would have taken some for himself too😉

Originally posted by: naq5

how is vasudeva (krishna's father) & vasudeva (krishna himself) differentiated in the text. i mean the spelling used is same. unlike krishnaa used for draupadi & krishna used for krishna

Vasudev is without an aa ki matra its a v then su, for Krishna it's V then aa ki matra followed by su

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

that, those three got together and discussed the matter. At that very moment,

Dvaipayana arrived there, in accordance with his wishes.’

188

Vaishampayana said, ‘As soon as they saw him, all the Pandavas and the greatly illustrious

son of Panchala18 stood up. All of them welcomed and paid their respects to the great-souled

Krishna.19 The great-minded one returned their greetings and asked about their welfare. He

then sat down on a radiant and golden seat. Instructed by Krishna, the one with infinite

energy, those greatest among men

20 also sat down on expensive seats. O lord of the people!

After some time, in sweet words, Parshata21 asked the great-souled one about Droupadi.

‘Drupada asked, “O fortunate lord! How can one woman become the wife of many, without

leading to sin? Please explain this to us in detail.” Vyasa replied, “This dharma has fallen into

disuse because it runs counter to the Vedas and common practice. But on this, I wish to hear

the opinions of each one of you

------

KMG puts in parenthesis that this Krishna is Vyasa. But Vyasa is not called the one with infinite energy.

Not only that:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01202.htm

Vaisampayana continued, 'After the sons of Pandu had been married, Hari (Krishna) sent unto them (as presents) various gold ornaments set with pearls and black gems (lapis lazuli). And Madhava (Krishna) also sent unto them costly robes manufactured in various countries, and many beautiful and soft blankets and hides of great value, and many costly beds and carpets and vehicles. He also sent them vessels by hundreds, set with gems and diamonds. And Krishna also gave them female servants by thousands, brought from various countries, and endued with beauty, youth and accomplishments and decked with every ornament. He also gave them many well-trained elephants brought from the country of Madra, and many excellent horses in costly harness, cars drawn by horses of excellent colours and large teeth. The slayer of Madhu, of immeasurable soul, also sent them coins of pure gold by crores upon crores in separate heaps. And Yudhishthira

p. 396

the just, desirous of gratifying Govinda, accepted all those presents with great joy

AND THIS IS WHEN VIDURA GOES TO PANCHAL TO INVITE THEM BACK:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01210.htm

Vaisampayana continued, 'Then Vasudeva said, 'I am of opinion that the Pandavas should go. But we should all abide by the opinion of king Drupada who is conversant with every rule of morality.'

Tomorrow, I will do that which is proper.” O descendant of the Bharata lineage! O king! At that, those three got together and discussed the matter. At that very moment, Dvaipayana arrived there, in accordance with his wishes.’

188

Vaishampayana said, ‘As soon as they saw him, all the Pandavas and the

greatly illustrious son of Panchala18 stood up. All of them welcomed and paid their respects to the great-souled Krishna.19 The great-minded one returned their greetings and asked about their welfare. He then sat down on a radiant and golden seat. Instructed by Krishna, the one with

infinite energy, those greatest among men20 also sat down on expensive

seats. O lord of the people! After some time, in sweet words, Parshata21 asked the great-souled one about Droupadi.

Text is very clear that Krishna Vasudeva isn’t among those who stood up when Krishna Vyasa arrived, then the Krishna after Krishna Vyasa arrived is Krishna Vyasa not Krishna Vasudev

Krishna sent them gifts not gave them, One doesn’t send gifts if he is present there, He is not mentioned in marriage or negotiation, Krishna Vyasa is mentioned. Is there mention of Krishna Vasudev before Vyasa arrived?

Originally posted by: NoraSM

That reminds me, Krishna actually spoke about asking his father but in the para he suggests abduction -

The one with the eyes of a lotus smilingly spoke these words, “How is it that the mind of one who lives in the forest is agitated by desire? O Partha! She is my sister and from

the same womb as Sarana.6 If your mind is set on her, I can speak to my father myself.” Arjuna replied, “She is Vasudeva’s daughter and Vasudeva’s sister. She is beautiful. How can I not be captivated? If this daughter of the Vrishni lineage, your sister, becomes my wife, I must

certainly have performed only good deeds. O Janardana!7 Tell me how I can obtain her. I will do everything that any man can.” Vasudeva said,

“O bull among men! A svayamvara8 is the form of marriage for kshatriyas. O Partha! But that is uncertain if one doesn’t know the inclination. Those who are learned in the ways of dharma say that for kshatriyas, who are warriors, abduction for marriage is permissible. O Arjuna! Therefore, abduct my beautiful sister. Who knows what she might do in a svayamvara?”

‘O king! Having thus decided on the course of action, Arjuna and Krishna then sent off swift men as messengers, to inform Dharmaraja in

Indraprastha of everything. On hearing, the mighty-armed Pandava9 agreed

___________________________________________

I think Krishna didn’t want to take any kind of risk and As you say Arjuna needed dowry too

So he could have spoken yet he didn't speak

Was it some kind of shuggle for him like why shall only I have Abduction marriage why not the girls of my family

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

See my other post where Krishna is mentioned.

Unless, we believe every sentence has to contain him, or he left and returned for negotiations with Hastinapuri, he was there throughout.

If you would like to believe that, then Dhaumya left after marrying Yudhishtira to Panchali 😈😆. So no polyandry.🤣

So either Krishna didn't have to be mentioned in every sentence. Or if he did, then Dhaumya did, too, or there was no polyandry.

Then, the issue of Krishna actually HELPING them build Khandavaprastha cannot be ignored. The whole business of Krishna being outwitted by Vyada is illogical.

He left from “Potter‘s hut”

Dhaumya did leave after marrying Yudi and Panchali, her marriage with 5 brothers didn’t happen in one day

Then the priest58 who knew the Vedas built and lit the sacrificial fire and poured offerings, with mantras. He then called Yudhishthira and united him with Krishna. Then the Veda-knowing one married them, making them walk around the fire, hand in hand. Then the priest took

leave of that ornament of battle59 and went out of the palace. Then those maharathas, bringers of fame to the Kuru lineage, sons of a king among men, took the hand of that supreme among women, in

succession, one day after another.

I don’t believe anyone can plan something like this so no I don’t believe Krishna was planning for his empire, I was just saying that he wasn’t present during negotiations and marriage