Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
After the fact is easier as he could tell Subhadra would have no husband be cause of it
Maybe still I doubt that for someone so politically strong as Krishna it would have been difficult to convince Balram
Ok so Kunti was Nakul's stepmom and foster mom, and Karenumati was Kunti's sister's daughter, would they be considered cousins??
If yes then probably we have example of parallel cousin marriage too, I think only cross cousin marriage is allowed
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
Ya true but still was convincing Balram so difficult? I don't think he always obeyed him anyways
I don’t know much about their relationship but Subhadra was Balaram’s sister, And his relationship with Krishna wasn’t good, I always felt that underlying rivalry between these two so it would have been difficult for Krishna to ask Balaram to marry Subhadra to someone who is Krishna’s friend. I mean Arjuna would obviously favor Krishna over Balaram
Subhadraharan is more of arranged marriage than Haran because the plan was never to let Arjuna complete the abduction, That’s the reason Yadavas could catch up with him even though he had a good lead on them, Then Arjuna was in Krishna’s chariot, Subhadra’s brother had fixed this marriage
I don’t know much about their relationship but Subhadra was Balaram’s sister, And his relationship with Krishna wasn’t good, I always felt that underlying rivalry between these two so it would have been difficult for Krishna to ask Balaram to marry Subhadra to someone who is Krishna’s friend. I mean Arjuna would obviously favor Krishna over Balaram
Subhadraharan is more of arranged marriage than Haran because the plan was never to let Arjuna complete the abduction, That’s the reason Yadavas could catch up with him even though he had a good lead on them, Then Arjuna was in Krishna’s chariot, Subhadra’s brother had fixed this marriage
Subhadra ki paternity main thoda confusion hai coz somewhere she is mentioned devki's daughter , some where Rohini's daughter.
She had a close relationship with krishna , I read during abduction of mrityvinda krishna sent Subhadra to get confirmation that whether mrityvinda love him or not . As he was told by balram that mrityvinda loves him
Originally posted by: Chiillii
Till I read Shatapata Brahmana I was under the impression that after Rajasuya Yudhishtir became emperor.
No he did not. Not even close. Rajsuya only makes a king independent ruler.
After Rajsuya
1. An independent ruler does not pay a portion of his kingdom as taxes to another king.
2. An independent ruler does not have to send his army and warriors to fight for another king.
3. His kingdom becomes ancestral inheritance for his descendents and only an emperor can take away that right.Even if he gets defeated in battle. Till Rajasuya Pandavas were only in name Pandavas. A Rajasuya allowed their descendents to dissociate from Kuru name.
Eg. After Jarasandh is killed Magadah could not be annexed. Only a member of Vrihadratha family became the next king. Magadha army was still independent and could happily choose not to fight for Pandavas. Rama made Sugreev and Vibhishan kings similarly.
Till Rajasuya IP was part of Kuru teritory ruled by two different branches of same family. Just like Kosala kingdom - Uttara and Dakshina Kosala.
Panchalas. Who had five separate families as one.
Ashwamedha
It is Ashwamedha Yagya that gets a king a right to make other kingdoms his vassals,
1. So now he can collect taxes from vassals
2. Summon their army, to fight for him
But
3. Inheritance rights remain within the vassal king's family. Even if the male members are killed, the queens continue the lineage through Niyog.
Jarasandh was planning one when he was killed.
Yudhishtir did it
Rama did it
Uparichara Vasu did it
Bali the one who got sent to pataal did it.
vajpeya yagya
It is the sarvamedha yagya / vajpeya that allows the king to annex the kingdom he conquers amd appoint a person of his choice, who could be his own family member or anybody he likes as King or administrator for that teritory.
Only after Sarvamedha a king becomes Chakravartin Samrat
There are only 3 such chakravartins
Prithu son of Vena on whose name earth is called Prithvi
Bharat son of Rishabnath on whose name India is called Bhaarat
Asoka son of Bindusara who converted to buddhism so didnt do sarvamedha as it involved animal sacrifice but he was still called Chakravartin Samrat.
@FlauntPessimism @Chilli &HearMeRoar
Can you tell me how Yagya makes them emperor? If one does rituals of Vajpeya yagya can he be emperor?
I don’t know much about their relationship but Subhadra was Balaram’s sister, And his relationship with Krishna wasn’t good, I always felt that underlying rivalry between these two so it would have been difficult for Krishna to ask Balaram to marry Subhadra to someone who is Krishna’s friend. I mean Arjuna would obviously favor Krishna over Balaram
Subhadraharan is more of arranged marriage than Haran because the plan was never to let Arjuna complete the abduction, That’s the reason Yadavas could catch up with him even though he had a good lead on them, Then Arjuna was in Krishna’s chariot, Subhadra’s brother had fixed this marriage
Brothers don't arrange marriage at least not till they father is alive. Krishna had to convince Vasudev and if that was done, convincing Balram was a piece of cake
About the marriage not being abduction, remember that Arjun also wanted money because they lacked it during those days despite the dowry by Panchal it wasn't very high.
I guess his marriages during exile was not just to win alliance but to also get money, Nagas had huge reserves, Manipur as the name suggest were the land of precious stones, he would have got huge riches from there.
He needed wealth from Dwarika too, a Rakshas Vivah or abduction marriage wouldn't have yielded him those but an arranged marriage would. I think his priority was dowry and not Subhadra😆 he would have easily himself defeated himself knowing that after Abduction Yadavs have no option but to marry them with dowry
@FlauntPessimism @Chilli &HearMeRoar
Can you tell me how Yagya makes them emperor? If one does rituals of Vajpeya yagya can he be emperor?
Yagya is not just sitting at your home and doing a Yagya, once a Yagya is started at home, the soldiers are sent across kingdoms with a clear notice of their intention
If the king agrees to it, he honours the offer, welcomes them and gives huge gifts to the king performing the Yagya, if not then he fights with the kings army to decide
Once the entire country is covered (the area and number of states support needed varies with the kind of Yagya being done), the closing ceremony of the Yagya is done where all the kings who have accepted the intent is invited. They again gift the king and pledge there acceptance to the cause of the Yagya
Yes if one does Vajpaye Yagya in this way, he would become the Chakravarti Samrat or the Emperor
Yes he was actually. He went there to meet them in the potter's hut.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01194.htm
And the king, then, from fear of a division amongst the brothers, addressing all of them, said, 'The auspicious Draupadi shall be the common wife of us all.'
"Vaisampayana continued, 'The sons of Pandu, then, hearing those words of their eldest brother, began to revolve them in their minds in great cheerfulness. The hero of the Vrishni race (Krishna suspecting the five persons he had seen at the Swayamvara to be none else than the heroes of the Kuru race), came accompanied by the son of Rohini (Valadeva), to the house of the potter where those foremost of men had taken up their quarters. On arriving there, Krishna and Valadeva beheld seated in that potter's house Ajatasanu (Yudhishthira) of well developed and long arms, and his younger brothers passing the splendour of fire sitting around him. Then Vasudeva approaching that foremost of virtuous men--the son of Kunti--and touching the feet of that prince of the Ajamida race, said, 'I am Krishna.'
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
Brothers don't arrange marriage at least not till they father is alive. Krishna had to convince Vasudev and if that was done, convincing Balram was a piece of cake
About the marriage not being abduction, remember that Arjun also wanted money because they lacked it during those days despite the dowry by Panchal it wasn't very high.
I guess his marriages during exile was not just to win alliance but to also get money, Nagas had huge reserves, Manipur as the name suggest were the land of precious stones, he would have got huge riches from there.
He needed wealth from Dwarika too, a Rakshas Vivah or abduction marriage wouldn't have yielded him those but an arranged marriage would. I think his priority was dowry and not Subhadra😆 he would have easily himself defeated himself knowing that after Abduction Yadavs have no option but to marry them with dowry
That reminds me, Krishna actually spoke about asking his father but in the para he suggests abduction -
The one with the eyes of a lotus smilingly spoke these words, “How is it that the mind of one who lives in the forest is agitated by desire? O Partha! She is my sister and from
the same womb as Sarana.6 If your mind is set on her, I can speak to my father myself.” Arjuna replied, “She is Vasudeva’s daughter and Vasudeva’s sister. She is beautiful. How can I not be captivated? If this daughter of the Vrishni lineage, your sister, becomes my wife, I must
certainly have performed only good deeds. O Janardana!7 Tell me how I can obtain her. I will do everything that any man can.” Vasudeva said,
“O bull among men! A svayamvara8 is the form of marriage for kshatriyas. O Partha! But that is uncertain if one doesn’t know the inclination. Those who are learned in the ways of dharma say that for kshatriyas, who are warriors, abduction for marriage is permissible. O Arjuna! Therefore, abduct my beautiful sister. Who knows what she might do in a svayamvara?”
‘O king! Having thus decided on the course of action, Arjuna and Krishna then sent off swift men as messengers, to inform Dharmaraja in
Indraprastha of everything. On hearing, the mighty-armed Pandava9 agreed
___________________________________________
I think Krishna didn’t want to take any kind of risk and As you say Arjuna needed dowry too
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
Yes he was actually. He went there to meet them in the potter's hut.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01194.htm
And the king, then, from fear of a division amongst the brothers, addressing all of them, said, 'The auspicious Draupadi shall be the common wife of us all.'
"Vaisampayana continued, 'The sons of Pandu, then, hearing those words of their eldest brother, began to revolve them in their minds in great cheerfulness. The hero of the Vrishni race (Krishna suspecting the five persons he had seen at the Swayamvara to be none else than the heroes of the Kuru race), came accompanied by the son of Rohini (Valadeva), to the house of the potter where those foremost of men had taken up their quarters. On arriving there, Krishna and Valadeva beheld seated in that potter's house Ajatasanu (Yudhishthira) of well developed and long arms, and his younger brothers passing the splendour of fire sitting around him. Then Vasudeva approaching that foremost of virtuous men--the son of Kunti--and touching the feet of that prince of the Ajamida race, said, 'I am Krishna.'
He left after it, He is not mentioned when they discuss polyandry with Drupad, Vyasa is mentioned there, Krishna is not mentioned during their marriage as well
Krishna is mentioned after marriage because he “sent” gifts to the newlyweds, He wasn’t present during negotiations or marriage
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