Originally posted by: Brahmaputra
Some time ago, I said I believed that the first dice game never happened. Here are a few more points that I noticed a couple of days ago. Eventhough it can at least be argued that Ks did not humiliate Draupadi, it cannot be convincingly argued that Draupadi did not lie to Krishna about being humiliated, unless it can be proved that Krishna was present in Dyuta Sabha. Kunti, as she spoke to Krishna before he went to meet Karna, recalled also that Draupadi was insulted right before Krishna's eyes and she reminded him of the same. That one reference IS something. So the ultimate question is why did Krishna do nothing to prevent Draupadi's humiliation? I am not really fond of Krishna or Yudhi or Suyo. But it seems only the best for every character's sake to discard the first game of dice and its associated events as one huge interpolation.
I wonder how Debroy failed to notice all these. Though Debroy spared Ramayana from being called a bollywood masala in his new translation of Ramayana CE, he repeated his claim of Mahabharata's events happening before Ramayana's. I don't see the point. For instance, I don't remember anyone in MB war fighting with trees and all... And Debroy seems to believe that the monkeys and apes of Ramayana were really monkeys and apes. At least it looked so from his preface of Ramayana. How could these monkeys talk human language? If MB happened before, why these monkeys didn't appear in MB war? The war might have been much smaller, but kingdoms as far as Kerala took part in it.
So is his claim of Virata war being the actual war. Vyasa must then have been a fool for making Pandavas kill Kauravas by cheating. After all, it was a Pandava heir that continued Kuru dynasty. How would that king have taken such baseless blames on his otherwise faultless ancestors?
As for Arjuna & twins being later additions, I must read more...
I agree Debroy's claims are haphazard. Some of it could even be plain outrageous. Arjun being an interpolation is a big claim, bcoz we find his name even in Panini's work. So, unless Debroy has the guts to publish his paper on Arjun, his claim is mostly a theory, and nothing else.
Coming to Ramayan being newer, that claim is not Debroy's invention. There have been plenty of others too who suggested the same. You may google it.
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Now, coming to dice-game, I would have to read up the references again that you pointed out. But the part in bold kind of makes me uncomfortable. I am all for image clean-up, but not to this extent.
About the part in italics- I would disagree here. There is far more evidence in Draupadi's words than in the claim that Ks did nothing wrong. Even Duryodhan said (mockingly) "Remember the time Draupadi was molested. Be a man." when he sent back the peace proposal of the Pandavas calling them 'sesame seeds without kernel' in CE (Udyog Parva, Section 55, Part 821).
Another thing to observe is, Draupadi did say - Krishna, even you were not there to protect me. To which Krishna replies, I was stuck bcoz Shalwa attacked.
Lying can be done about things which happen in private or to someone in private. It is diificult to lie in front of many people about something that took place infront of so many people.
I dont mind Draupadi being a liar, honestly. But if that is indeed the case, then she would turn out to be the most influential human in entire Mahabharata. Coz, she lied about such a big thing and managed to convince Krishna, Panchals, Balram, Shalya n everyone else without getting caught! In fact, her lying was so damn influential that even Duryodhan gets convinced that they molested her, despite being innocent! Now, that's some talent. 😆
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In my opinion, if first dice-game is a lie/interpolation, then it serves neither Krishna nor Draupadi nor Duryodhan as you seem to suggest. It only helps Yudisthir. And of course, Karna.
Edited by amritat - 5 years ago
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