DOTM#2 : Arjuna's skill defines heroism more than Karna's integrity - Page 3

Can I discuss about the great heroes of Mahabharata and topics related to the Kurukshetra war?

Originally posted by: iluvusakshi

तेव्हा कुठे गेला होता राधासुता तुझा धर्म?

Since I m marathi, maharashtrian, i will quote this dialogue from mb.

Jab karna ka rath ka chakra (wheel) dharti me atak jata hai during war time, karna requested arjun to stop /hold the war and reminded him about the dharma. (i.e. nihatye pe shastra na chalana).

At that time arjuna/krishna ne karna ko yaad dila diya ..K abhimanyu bhi nihatta tha(without the weapons), phir bhi aap logo ne (kauravas including ashwathama and others) mere bete ko haal haal kar ke maar dala.

😢😢😢😢😢

Karna was brave, generous but he had many shraaps. His fate was 😢

I m in arjun's team.

Also, I guess Iravati Karve's 'Yugandhar'.

At the end, she wrote Karna could better Arjun in Archery, but he could never be a better man than Arjun.

Originally posted by: bsnk040187

Can I discuss about the great heroes of Mahabharata and topics related to the Kurukshetra war?

You can open a new topic on this forum to discuss. Also, there is a private Mahabharat related forum, where we discuss lot of MB related stuff. You can join that too.

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/1435

Originally posted by: Lostin90s

Karna having integrity is the most laughable thing i have read today on this forum. Karna instigated Duryodhan to strip Draupadi because he was apparently hurt from her rejection. Furthermore, he participated in the killing of weaponless Abhimanyu. I guess these incidents and many more are overlooked by many while analysing his character.

@b: i remembered the same when i read Karna having integrity and principles

Originally posted by: Quantum-Dot

Join your team, Rashi and share your bits and parts too along with reading.

Not getting time rn but i would share whatever i read. Read till Pandavas r exiled for 13 years.

First of all abt Arjun as we know he is great archer nd have knowledge of all the weapons. Pandu made Indradev happy by performing tapasya before asking Kunti to summon him to get a best child that is Arjun so yes he is best warrior, man with principles, heroism as u mentioned and knowledge of vedas and everything. And ofc he is Nar so Shri Krishna sided with him during war. Also he followed the path of dharm.

As for Karna, he was also great archer but till where i read he is nowhere near to Arjun as he couldnt defeat Drupad in Panchal war, couldnt win Draupadi's swayamwar (he couldnt lift the bow at first place) and always instigated Kauravas against Pandavas, coz of his jealousy with Arjun.

He wanted to compete with Arjun every chance he got. Also we know he was the one to order for vastra haran of Draupadi nd said disgusting words about her. So words like integrity, morals and principles are not for him surely.

Arjuna is said to be more agile and dexterous, whilst Karna is said to be more robust and muscular. Nonetheless, the Mahabharata's main theme revolves around their rivalry, as both warriors are regarded as some of the greatest of their day.

When I read Vyasa Mahabharata, in it, Karna was not portrayed as the superior archer or even as an incredible warrior as he was in serials.

Karna was a good archer, but he was cursed and punished for his evil deeds since he sided with Duryodhana, who never adhered to the Dharma.

Karna killed Abhimanyu by stabbing him from behind, which was against the rules of war. He was the chief architect of Draupadi's vastraharan and the first to kill Abhimanyu.

Best archers according to Dhanurveda:- Dhanurveda is the Upveda of Yajurveda. 1 Mahadev 2 Lord Rama and 3Arjuna. Karna was not listed.

Krishna knew his inner grudge against Arjun and the Pandavas, which is why he associated with Arjun rather than Karna.

Throughout the entire narrative, Arjun was the lone ambidextrous archer. The only archer capable of shooting in the dark. Given the bow known as Gandiva by Agni dev, Lord Shiva gave the Pashupata Astra to Arjun, the only person after Lord Rama. Arjuna was acknowledged by Lord Shiva as being on par with him in valour.

Arjun was an unbeatable fighter. Even Lord Parashurama, who declared that Arjun could not be defeated in combat.

Talking about Karna's moral integrity, sharing a few points regarding this.

Karna's unwavering loyalty to his friend Duryodhana is one of his defining traits. Despite knowing that Duryodhana's actions and intentions were often morally questionable, Karna stood by him out of gratitude for Duryodhana's acceptance and support when society shunned him. This loyalty was rooted in a deep sense of gratitude and honor, as Duryodhana was the only one who recognized Karna's worth and abilities, making him the king of Anga. Karna was known for his unwavering commitment to his promises. For instance, he promised his mother, Kunti, that he would not kill more than one of her sons, ensuring that she would have at least five sons alive after the war. Karna was renowned for his generosity and was often called "Danveer". The most notable instance of this is when he gave away his divine armor and earrings to Indra, who came disguised as a Brahmin, knowing well that this act would leave him vulnerable in battle. This act of charity exemplified his willingness to give away even the most precious things he owned. Also, despite being rejected by Dronacharya once, Karna never showed disrespect towards him. When Kunti revealed to him that he was her first-born son, Karna was deeply conflicted. However, he accepted his fate with grace and chose to fight for Duryodhana, the man who stood by him when no one else did. This decision highlights his integrity and commitment to his own principles and values, despite the personal and emotional turmoil it caused. These illustrate Karna's moral integrity, showing how he consistently upheld his principles of loyalty, generosity, and respect, even in the face of immense personal challenges.

Originally posted by: Quantum-Dot

Talking about Karna's moral integrity, sharing a few points regarding this.

Karna's unwavering loyalty to his friend Duryodhana is one of his defining traits. Despite knowing that Duryodhana's actions and intentions were often morally questionable, Karna stood by him out of gratitude for Duryodhana's acceptance and support when society shunned him. This loyalty was rooted in a deep sense of gratitude and honor, as Duryodhana was the only one who recognized Karna's worth and abilities, making him the king of Anga. Karna was known for his unwavering commitment to his promises. For instance, he promised his mother, Kunti, that he would not kill more than one of her sons, ensuring that she would have at least five sons alive after the war. Karna was renowned for his generosity and was often called "Danveer". The most notable instance of this is when he gave away his divine armor and earrings to Indra, who came disguised as a Brahmin, knowing well that this act would leave him vulnerable in battle. This act of charity exemplified his willingness to give away even the most precious things he owned. Also, despite being rejected by Dronacharya once, Karna never showed disrespect towards him. When Kunti revealed to him that he was her first-born son, Karna was deeply conflicted. However, he accepted his fate with grace and chose to fight for Duryodhana, the man who stood by him when no one else did. This decision highlights his integrity and commitment to his own principles and values, despite the personal and emotional turmoil it caused. These illustrate Karna's moral integrity, showing how he consistently upheld his principles of loyalty, generosity, and respect, even in the face of immense personal challenges.

The much touted friendship of Duryodhan and Karna is nothing more than undivided loyalty of a beneficiary to his benefactor. If Karna was a true friend of Duryodhna, he would have never encouraged him to humiliate Draupadi and thus dooming the whole Kaurav clan.

He had a chance to rectify his mistake later when Krishna came as a mediator to settle the dispute between Kaurvas and Pandavas but he had too much arrogance in his own prowess and overconfidence to defeat the pandavs that he couldn’t give any sane advice to his ‘friend’.

When he promised Kunti he wouldn’t kill any of her sons save Arjun, he sabotaged the chances of victory of Kaurvas then and there and he didn’t bother to inform this to his friend. Why?????

His arrogance was as such that he refused to consider about his friendship with Duryodhan when he refused to accept Bhishma as the senapati and sat out of the war until the former was at the helm.

So he was neither a good friend, nor a good human as well. He was indeed a great archer but his frail ego and lack of patience always undid his greatness in archery

Both Arjuna and Karna were great in archery but Arjuna is compared to be on par with Lord Shiva and Lord Rama in terms of his skills archery and mastering divine weapons. To suit the mainstream narrative of outcast poor boy as the protagonist doesn’t right some of Karna’s heinous acts. Attempting to disrobe Draupadi in front of a royal court and murdering Abhimanyu when he was outnumbered with no weapons, poisoning Bhima, are outright on the opposite spectrum of integrity.

He was loyal to Duryodana and contrary to the friendship theory they shared, he benefited from it and vice versa…!
Vidur was a low born uncle of Kauravas and Pandavas and when Duryodana insulted him and his birth mother in the court, why dint Karna’s integrity kick in and come to the rescue since he too was in the same spot before the Royal friendships!

Karna had integrity? No way!