Vivek Oberoi's look as PM Narendra Modi *DT Note P8* - Page 5

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Posted: 5 years ago
#41
There are whole lot of Controversial articles against everyone. That will not become facts bcoz someone wrote them. Because anybody can write anything that suits their agenda. If someone is making such a severe claim of someone sleeping with his daughter, it needs to be backed with evidence.

If people start quoting such articles then nobody will spared. Especially those from the so-called Holy Books.

This forum is meant to discuss Bollywood. Else, everyone can start provoking each other. Hope Mods do something about the kind of Provocatory nonsense getting spewed here. That is totally out of Bollywood.
Edited by ThunderLight - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#42
They won't show anything related to Godhra.
anjs thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: ThunderLight


And What is the proof of it? Just FYI, these Western writers have a habit of tarnishing people who opposed them. They used to write lot of rubbish against even Bhagat Singh and Vivekananda. And by such propaganda, you are actually questioning the character of the women too indirectly. Ridiculous.



where am I questioning the character of the women ?😕
If such thing (if true) is making you think the women is characterless, then that's more ridiculous... He was the most revered person in the whole nation that time...if some of the women, gave their consent then it doesn't make them characterless...

of course I don't have proof...but such a big blame would've been squashed by Indian historians if untrue...

edited later, as I found some link online :

@ bold : here is a proof...a personal diary, written by the girl who was by his side for quite a few years... what more proof would one ask for ??

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20130617-mahatma-gandhi-experiment-sexuality-manuben-discovered-diaries-763997-1999-11-30

here is an excerpt :

Manuben's jottings also give an insight into the growing disquiet among Gandhi's followers over his celibacy tests. In a diary entry of January 31, 1947, when she was at Navgram, Bihar, Manuben refers to a letter to Gandhi from his close follower Kishorelal Mashruwala where he calls her "Maya" (an illusion or a temptress) and asks the Mahatma to free himself off her clutches. To this, Gandhi replies: "You do whatever you want but I am firm in my belief regarding this experiment." Even as Manuben and Gandhi walked through Noakhali in Bengal, two of his entourage- R.P. Parasuram, who had acted as his secretary, and Nirmal Kumar Bose, also his secretary and later director of Anthropological Society of India-left in anger over Gandhi's behaviour. Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, in a letter to Gandhi on January 25, 1947, currently among the Patel papers housed in the National Archives, asked him to suspend the experiment which Patel called a "terrible blunder" on Gandhi's part that pained his followers "beyond measure".
Edited by anjs - 5 years ago
1146481 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#44

Originally posted by: anjs



where am I questioning the character of the women ?😕
If such thing (if true) is making you think the women is characterless, then that's more ridiculous... He was the most revered person in the whole nation that time...if some of the women, gave their consent then it doesn't make them characterless...

of course I don't have proof...but such a big blame would've been squashed by Indian historians if untrue...


The article is so sick and derogatory that it needed no response or attention. U tell me your most revered person. I will share one article against him written by some hatemonger. Hope u believe it as Gospel Truth too and ask the person to prove his innocence. Instead of asking for proofs from the person making those claims.
Edited by ThunderLight - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: Too_Much

Ek Movie me ex- PM ko girao, ek movie me bad chad kar dikhao.. to phir samajhlo elections khareeb hai..

I think MMS is not degraded in the movie rather he is shown as a good person but a bad politician, a mere puppet in the hand of Gandhis. People need to watch before getting judgemental.
anjs thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: ThunderLight


The article is so sick and derogatory that it needed no response or attention. U tell me your most revered person. I will share one article against him written by some hatemonger. Hope u believe it as Gospel Truth too and ask the person to prove his innocence. Instead of asking for proofs from the person making those claims.



I believe all humans are grey and have done mistakes in life... even the most saintly person have gone through it ...some less and some more... as long as you have concrete proofs, i will believe it, no matter who it is...


here is some more excerpt :

Commenting on the diaries, psychoanalyst and scholar Sudhir Kakar writes: "So focused was the Mahatma on his own feelings during these experiments that I believe he may have 'chosen' to overlook their consequences for the women involved. Except for the flaring up of violent jealousy between the various women, we do not know the psychological effects, if any, that these experiments left on each of the women."

Now, thanks to the recovery of Manuben's diaries, we can assess the psychological impact the Mahatma had on his intimate companion.

Edited by anjs - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: DelusionalMe

I think MMS is not degraded in the movie rather he is shown as a good person but a bad politician, a mere puppet in the hand of Gandhis. People need to watch before getting judgemental.



yea, the trailer shows how Sonia and Rahul used him to tackle the issues and get the chair ready for Rahul...

there were two dialogues, one where Sonia asks MMS to resign so that Rahul takes over, but some scams break out and then when MMS wants to resign, she tells him how will Rahul handle things in such difficult situation

I used to not like MMS much during his reign...but looking at the trailer I really felt bad for him...
AllThatCritique thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#48

Originally posted by: ThunderLight


An expose is something that is backed by concrete evidence. What you are talking about looks like someone's overactive imagination. Funnily, the same article introduced the writer as someone Elitist, Anti India and Anti Hindu. Basically, a Typical Colonist and Racist.


Gandhi on caste system :


I believe that if Hindu society has been able to stand, it is because it is founded on the Caste system. ... A community which can create the Caste system must be said to possess unique power of organization. ... To destroy the Caste system and adopt the Western European social system means that Hindus must give up the principle of hereditary occupation which is the soul of the Caste system. [The] hereditary principle is an eternal principle. To change it is to create disorder. ... It will be a chaos if every day a Brahmin is to be changed into a Shudra and a Shudra is to be changed into a Brahmin. The Caste system is a natural order of society.

Gandhi justifying the role of the lower castes or dalits as manual scavengers:

"The ideal bhangi of my conception would be a Brahmin par-excellence, possibly even excel him. It is possible to envisage-the existence of a Bhangi without a
Brahmin. But without the former the latter could not be, It is the Bhangi who enables society to live. A Bhangi does for society what a mother does for her baby. A mother washes her baby of the dirt and insures his health. Even so the Bhangi protects and safeguards the health of that entire community by maintaining sanitation for it. The Brahmin's duty is to look after the sanitation of the soul, the Bhangi's that of the body of society. But there is a difference in practice ; the Brahmin generally does not live up to his duty, the bhangi does willy-nilly no doubt.

But that is not all. My ideal bhangi would know the quality of night-soil and urine. He would keep a close watch on these and give a timely warning to the individual concerned. Thus, he will give a timely notice of the results of his examination of the excreta. That presupposes a scientific knowledge of the requirements of his profession. He would likewise be an authority on the subject of disposal of night-soil in small villages as well as big cities and his advice and guidance in the matter would be sought for and freely given to society.

It goes without saying that he would have the usual learning necessary for reaching the standard here laid down for his profession. Such an ideal bhangi while deriving his livelihood from his occupation, would approach it only as a sacred duty. In other words he would not dream of amassing wealth out of it. He would consider himself responsible for the proper removal and disposal of all the dirt and night-soil within the area which he serves and regard the maintenance of healthy and sanitary condition within the same as the summum bonum of his existence.

Gandhi using girls and women and being a sexual predator:

Gandhi wrote about one such incident with his grandniece Manu when he called for her to sleep with him during a time of intense Hindu- Muslim violence in Bengal. He writes,

"We both may be killed by the Muslims, he told her, "and must put our purity to the ultimate test, so that we know that we are offering the purest of sacrifices, and we should now both start sleeping naked"


The tests appalled many leading in March 16, 1947, Nirmal Kumar Bose, one of Gandhi's closest associates to write a letter to Kishorlal G. Mashruwala, another of Gandhi's close colleagues, saying

When I first learnt about Gandhi's experiment in which a girl took off her clothes and lay under the same cover with him and he tried to find out if any sexual feeling was evoked in him or his companion, I felt genuinely surprised. Personally, I would not tempt myself like that and more than that, my respect for [women] would prevent me from treating her as an instrument in my experiment.


".

Gandhi even unto his death would not relinquish this practice and died with the Abha and his grand-niece Manu, the two young women who were his "human walking sticks of whom he rotated nightly in his bed.

The situation distressed one of his former followers R. P. Parasuram who quit after writing the following in his letter of indictment:

1 January, 1947
Srirampur

Revered Bapu,

I write these lines in sorrow and pain. You know how shy and unforward I have been these two years. You must imagine to what depths I must have been agitated then to overcome my shyness and become bold and that too with a man who is considered by many to be the greatest man living...

I object to your sleeping in the same bed with members of the opposite sex. In February 1945 or so, I was given the draft of a statement to type. I was shocked by the contents...I must tell you that even before I know of this. One day Amin-bhai came and told me that he was shocked to see Manu [Manu GandhiGandhi's own grand niece] getting into your bed.

In those days I was more shy than I am now. My only friend in the ashram was Amin. Even then I came to know of the discussions about this affair because the ashram people are so careless and can't keep their mouth shut. Everybody objected to your doing this.

Apart from the question of any affect on you, what about the effect on girls?

There is something of other wrong with them [the women who sleep naked with Gandhi]. [The] Punjabi girl who lived opposite my room in Matunga. She used to weep unrestrainedly and that not caring whether others saw her or not. She laughed also unrestrainedly. And then here is Dr. Sushila-behn [the 24-year-old in-house physician at the ashram who Gandhi also used for his experiments']. How many are the days when she has not wept? She is a doctor and yet she is always a patient, always is ill. Who has heard of a doctor who cries out at night?

Even then the whole thing is considered wrong by the world. I do not like it. Nirmal babu [Bose] does not. Sucheta-behn [Kriplani] did not like it and said, "However great he may be, he cannot do such things. What is this? You must admit that there is something in our objection. You cannot waive it aside.

As for blood relations [this is in reference to Manu Gandhi]. The world is sceptic even there. There have been cases of immorality between father and daughter, brother and sister.

I object to your having massage done by girls. When I was studying in college, I read a report saying you were being massaged by Dr. Sushila-behn. And now I find you do get yourself massaged by girls.

Those people who know that you are naked during massage time say that you could at least put a cover over it [his genitals].

The same objection I hold against girls coming to the bathroom when you go there. Ramachandran saw you like that and said you had fallen a little from his estimation. However great you may be, you cannot do these things.

Your placing your hands on shoulders of girls. You had written once that you gave up this practice because others intimated you with evil intention. I have not come across any other writing saying you could resume it. So it was strange to me why you resumed it. During the two years I have been with you, about 50 letters or so objecting to this practice from admirers and calumniators came. None of them got any reply.

Your being seen naked [during his bath and massage] jars on the mind of strangers, admirers though they might be. Ramachandran did not like it. He said it was the limit.

Ever since the 17th December [1946], when in the small hours of the morning you made those dreadful sounds, dreadful because it came from you man of such eminence, even otherwise unbecoming for any wise or old man, my head has not been at peace. I have heard of another such instance from Mr. Ramachandran of the API [Associated Press of India] when you told Sushila-behn to leave you. I have seen such another instance at Delhi. But this event shook me to my depths. I said to myself that God and the nation would not forgive me if I kept quiet.

You commit Himalayan blunders. But you refuse to see these things and when told, you are irritated. I say you are conceited and constitute yourself to be the repository of all the wisdom in the world.

And now to my charges. Unless [my demands] are fulfilled, I [will] depart. I beg to differ and go away. Your actions to which I object:

1. Your sleeping with any member of the opposite sex.
2. Being massaged by any member of the opposite sex.
3. Allowing yourself to be seen naked by any member of the opposite sex.
4. Allowing yourself to be seen naked by strangers and even by people who are of your party who are not so intimate.
5. Placing your hands on the shoulders of girls when walking.





Charaiveti thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#49
It's a pretty well known fact that Gandhi slept with naked young girls to test celibacy. I don't understand how saying that is anti India. High time we stop doing idol worship. Gandhi was no saint n not just personally even politically I find him problematic at times . anyone can have an opinion about Gandhi, not necessarily everyone has to praise him.
At the end of the day Gandhi is a human being who can be judged n is not flawless. Noone is beyond criticism. No person is so big that criticising him equates to criticising the country. That's very egoistic to think so
Edited by Charaiveti - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#50
I have already provided the proof. There's also his quotes on black men which are straight up deragatory. Gandhiji gave dalits a new name but never let them come out of those professions. He wanted to be their savior and disliked Ambedkar who was far more educated than him and one of them who saw through his whole facade. Everyone in Congress knew of his behavior and experiments in the ashram and did everything to hide it so that it doesn't cause a scandal. Gandhi took advantage of his position and did whatever he wanted whenever. The women were essentially abused.

Not everyone is out to get Gandhi. These are facts. Growing up we had a different view of Gandhi and that's fine cause we were shielded or ignorant. But as an adult I cant ever justify his actions. No man is perfect but those experiments at the ashram using those girls, how can anyone not feel rage. That person is the father of the nation? Which father does that exactly. Now that we know better its time to open our eyes. Criticism of Gandhi is necessary. He was a sexual predator.
Edited by AllThatCritique - 5 years ago
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