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indi

@indi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#91

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I know you and many others feel the same way but my take is R was not a slave because she did all of the work by her own choice just because she wanted to please everyone. Amma would not have let anyone throw her out if she refused or did not do the work. The very proof being R was able to finish college, I am sure only because Amma was a strong person in the household. By nature R wanted to make everyone happy and she genuinely loved her M&Ms even though the feeling was not reciprocated. This was more pronounced as she was an orphan and was craving for any kind of belonging to the family. That was her kind of unconditional love. I find it hard to call G's love unconditional at the time he threw her out because he did put condition for R to choose between him and them. Any self respecting person will not accept that lying down and R was very proud in her own way. She did try to accommodate his feelings by not forcing G to bring them in even though she softly requested twice but she could not hold back on opportunity to feed them when they were starving. She did fear his temper rightly so and hence hid the fact just as to avoid upsetting G. But like I said I did not like her argument the M&Ms never made her beg. They did even worse by sending her to the carom club in the night. Glad in spite of the talks of closing we are still able to post and we will take the opportunity to do so while we can!

@van didi, godblessall … I could understand R's desire to be loved when she was all alone, but now she had the love and support of her devoted husband . I could understand her feeling really sorry for the cousins and even a bit for the M&Ms, afterall, they are family, but considering that the M&Ms were grownups and had the ability and imagination to think up such elaborate schemes to separate G&R, I would think that they should be able to find themselves a way to survive!! Two of the Mamas were businessmen and one a lawyer – all successful. They were just a bunch of lazy people who felt that they couldn't survive without R's bhaag, and by assisting them, R was encouraging them in their stupidity and laziness. Why couldn't they survive by working hard like millions of other people? Why did R feel she had to leave her husband and go assist them? In the same manner that she worked to feed them, why couldn't they do the same? Did she forget all the horrible things that the M&Ms did to her and G? I think by that time, R should have been able to resist the M&Ms; there comes a time when an individual has to harden his heart - it's called tough love!!

At the same time, I don't excuse G for throwing her out of the house. He should have understood R's soft heart and nature and maybe come to a compromise … just like he did when he brought them back to live with K&M. But then G, loving R the way he did, expected her to love him in the same manner … i.e., he would be her first priority! Again, he must have felt hurt and betrayed by someone he loved and trusted … first his father and then R!

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vanfan

@vanfan

Navigator

Posted: 12 years ago

#92

Originally posted by: indi

@van didi, godblessall ' I could understand R's desire to be loved when she was all alone, but now she had the love and support of her devoted husband . I could understand her feeling really sorry for the cousins and even a bit for the M&Ms, afterall, they are family, but considering that the M&Ms were grownups and had the ability and imagination to think up such elaborate schemes to separate G&R, I would think that they should be able to find themselves a way to survive!! Two of the Mamas were businessmen and one a lawyer ' all successful. They were just a bunch of lazy people who felt that they couldn't survive without R's bhaag, and by assisting them, R was encouraging them in their stupidity and laziness. Why couldn't they survive by working hard like millions of other people? Why did R feel she had to leave her husband and go assist them? In the same manner that she worked to feed them, why couldn't they do the same? Did she forget all the horrible things that the M&Ms did to her and G? I think by that time, R should have been able to resist the M&Ms; there comes a time when an individual has to harden his heart - it's called tough love!!

At the same time, I don't excuse G for throwing her out of the house. He should have understood R's soft heart and nature and maybe come to a compromise ' just like he did when he brought them back to live with K&M. But then G, loving R the way he did, expected her to love him in the same manner ' i.e., he would be her first priority! Again, he must have felt hurt and betrayed by someone he loved and trusted ' first his father and then R!

Thanks indi for taking the medium path. 😆 R getting the love and support from her husband later in life does not decrease the love she had for her family however undeserving they were. If she decided they were undeserving it would make her judgmental and I think R would have grownup to be a very bitter person if she was in a slightest way judgmental.Whether they could survive or work was not up to her to judge. She did try to break away after the fire incident not because they made her work a lot or burnt her house but because they hurt her G. But sympathy over starving relatives overcame the anger she had. It does not matter how lazy or wicked they are but if people from your family are starving you will help. Mind you R was forgiving by nature and bore no grudge towards anyone. Also most importantly she did not leave her husband but was forced to as G did not give her an option to do what she wanted to do for her own peace of mind. It is very degrading for husband to say you cannot help your family with my money. I would have done what R did too as to me that kind of tells G's hatred towards the M&M was far more than his love for R. (at least at that point. He did come back to his senses after the kali ghat episode)
Regarding the fight G had with his dad, how do we know who betrayed whom? I always have the argument that (not knowing what caused the fight), it was very nice of his dad for not forcing G's mom to cut off ties with G just because he did not get along with G. Knowing the way G behaved when R helped someone he did not like, tomorrow if G had a fight with his son, he would force R not to help or have ties with her own son too. Would that be right?
Sorry I keep going at this on and on but it is just my view of life what I have seen over the years. Luckily for me I am a working woman but I still do not like to ask for money to buy the things I want to give away to anyone I like because it does cause unwanted arguments. I have an allowance every month that I take in cash and I can do what I want with it no questions asked. Believe it or not my husband calls "family distribution/gifts fund" in the budget. Not that I cannot take any money when I want. I could have taken the path of arguing over every requirement I have one at a time, but to me this is makes it more convenient and there is no unpleasantness. I would rather not explain. I hate to argue or talk money and this saves a lot of whys and Nos. See where I am coming from when I see BBAT? I guess for all young women 😊it is hard to see the implication between G & R's fight but to me R had no choice.

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Leesan

@Leesan

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#93

@vanfan, @godblessall, @indi...great,insightful posts by all!!!

Isn't it amazing that we can still find so much to discuss re BBAT even though the show has ended? And in such detailed and profound ways?
That just speaks volumes re the quality of the show, and of course my beloved forum friends!!! This is what I mean,when I describe the unique connection that the forum holds to the memory of BBAT for me!!!

Anyways,whilst I support all your viewpoints ,have to concur with Van!!! No,Indi, I am not sucking up to your Van Didi!!!😉!! It just that whilst R should have trusted G much more and her M&Ms much less, if you look at the evolution of the relationships that R had with both her family and G, her responses are much more understandable, even if not entirely acceptable.

R was an orphan, devoid of a mother's love,much less a father's support!! The only true love she knew came from Amma. She bent over backwards for her family's approval and acceptance, but never felt she truly deserved it . I think she thought of herself as unlucky and unworthy, and just accepted her fate without complaint. Yet she herself was so giving and generous in every circumstance. And that is the Runjuhn that Guddu came to know and LOVE!!!

Even though G may have been rejected by his father, his mother still loved and accepted him, and he had faithful friends,that makes a huge difference in someone's perspective!! G asked R to go against her very nature, the SAME nature that he so helplessly fell in love with!! He was blaming R for being who she was. Yes, she should have trusted him more, and perhaps have reasoned with him further, but alas,that was not R's character!! She was kind,gentle and forgiving to a fault !! After all ,didn't she forgive G for all the injustices and humiliation she suffered at his hands?? In this light, G should have been more tolerant and understanding, but that was the angry and headstrong G at his very worst, but still G nevertheless!!

The difference here is that R knew his weaknesses and worked with them, G should have been able to do the same re R's weaknesses, especially for the woman he so loved!!

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vanfan

@vanfan

Navigator

Posted: 12 years ago

#94

Thanks Leesan!😃 We all know you better than to assume you agreeing to someone just for the sake of agreeing. I do understand where indi and godblessall coming from as R supported wrong doers but I am not condoning or excusing M&Ms here. I am only justifying R. Yes. It is amazing on how much we can analyze this story even now. It was the characters of this story that were so deep and real that makes these discussions compelling even today.

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indi

@indi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#95

@leesan ... I could never think that you are sucking up ... by now i ought to know that you are your own person with your own views!! I know that R had a loving, generous and forgiving nature and it would have been very hard for her to see her M&Ms hungry. However, I still think she should have considered that they were not helpless ... they were intelligent, healthy adults who were quite capable of fending for themselves if they really wanted to. She could have given them a chance to at least make an effort to help themselves instead of rushing in to fend for them. In any case, she now had a husband to consider also.

@van didi ... You might be surprised, but I am quite familiar with this sort of family situation!!! And believe it or not, I would do the same as R if it were my family! Seems that I can't make up my mind huh? 😆 But seriously. I grew up very close to my family ... ... so I fully understand R; surprise, but I'm known in the family for my caring attitude!! I'm the one who is always worrying over everybody's problem; sometimes I think I am too close and should put some space between myself and the family! I always say that no husband could come between me and my family 😊!!! Maybe that's because I don't have a husband!

Anyway, as you would all have realised by now, I am always prejudiced when it comes to G😉!! Am crazy., am I not!! And for a guy called Guddu Shukla!!

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jps01

@jps01

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#96

Leesan and Vanfan Di, I do believe that G had a discussion with R about her M&Ms situation (remember when they sat on the floor) and he told her calmly that he understood but that let's give it sometime before he does anything for them (or something to that effect)! In the hopes that maybe they would change, but the snakes they were, they couldn't see good even if it smacked them in their disgusting faces!!! When he found out that R was giving them food behind his back, he was mad and most husbands would be mad I believe!!! 😡

Now, G loved R fiercely and in his anger he said choose between me and them, she choose them!!!! I understand what she stood for but for god's sake, after they did everything they could to separate them which she was aware of - she walked away from him instead of them!! G's world crumbled and buckled as he did not expect this. In his mind, he never thought that R would walk away and leave him alone! Here, I think as an Indian woman, it is definitely wrong! We are brought up to believe that when we get married, our husbands are our life partner and next to god. Even as independent as today's women are, that custom/respect towards the husband is still there! 😡

So, even though I understand how much love R had for her M&Ms, you do not jeopardize your married life!! I believe G lashed out in anger, not that he wanted her out of his life. Everyone reacts to pain in different ways and that was his way and I am sure he lived to regret the day!!!

Team Guddu rests her case!!!😛

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indi

@indi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#97

Originally posted by: jps01
Leesan and Vanfan Di, I do believe that G had a discussion with R about her M&Ms situation (remember when they sat on the floor) and he told her calmly that he understood but that let's give it sometime before he does anything for them (or something to that effect)! In the hopes that maybe they would change, but the snakes they were, they couldn't see good even if it smacked them in their disgusting faces!!! When he found out that R was giving them food behind his back, he was mad and most husbands would be mad I believe!!! 😡

Now, G loved R fiercely and in his anger he said choose between me and them, she choose them!!!! I understand what she stood for but for god's sake, after they did everything they could to separate them which she was aware of - she walked away from him instead of them!! G's world crumbled and buckled as he did not expect this. In his mind, he never thought that R would walk away and leave him alone! Here, I think as an Indian woman, it is definitely wrong! We are brought up to believe that when we get married, our husbands are our life partner and next to god. Even as independent as today's women are, that custom/respect towards the husband is still there! 😡

So, even though I understand how much love R had for her M&Ms, you do not jeopardize your married life!! I believe G lashed out in anger, not that he wanted her out of his life. Everyone reacts to pain in different ways and that was his way and I am sure he lived to regret the day!!!

Team Guddu rests her case!!!😛

@jps01 ... totally agree with you! when R walked away from G, he reacted the only way he knew how ... he was angry and in pain! This is so strange, but my brother and I were discussing this event and he used your exact words ... "when an Indian woman marries, her husband is next to God!!" A girl leaves her family and cleaves to her husband. Every Indian family knows that when a daughter gets married she no longer belongs to them!!

Even God stops forgiving after so many times😃! There should have been a point where R should have decided that enough is enough ... but she just went on forgiving and forgiving!! There comes a time when you just have to move on! It's like beating a dead horse ... those people didn't even care that their own children were starving because of their wicked deeds, yet R felt sorry for them so much that she even walked away from her husband for them. I don't think that R expected G to react in that manner though ... could we dare say that R was using G's love for her ... taking him for granted? Afterall, she chose her M&Ms over G!

Edited by indi - 12 years ago

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vanfan

@vanfan

Navigator

Posted: 12 years ago

#98

Originally posted by: jps01
Leesan and Vanfan Di, I do believe that G had a discussion with R about her M&Ms situation (remember when they sat on the floor) and he told her calmly that he understood but that let's give it sometime before he does anything for them (or something to that effect)! In the hopes that maybe they would change, but the snakes they were, they couldn't see good even if it smacked them in their disgusting faces!!! When he found out that R was giving them food behind his back, he was mad and most husbands would be mad I believe!!! 😡

Now, G loved R fiercely and in his anger he said choose between me and them, she choose them!!!! I understand what she stood for but for god's sake, after they did everything they could to separate them which she was aware of - she walked away from him instead of them!! G's world crumbled and buckled as he did not expect this. In his mind, he never thought that R would walk away and leave him alone! Here, I think as an Indian woman, it is definitely wrong! We are brought up to believe that when we get married, our husbands are our life partner and next to god. Even as independent as today's women are, that custom/respect towards the husband is still there! 😡

So, even though I understand how much love R had for her M&Ms, you do not jeopardize your married life!! I believe G lashed out in anger, not that he wanted her out of his life. Everyone reacts to pain in different ways and that was his way and I am sure he lived to regret the day!!!

Team Guddu rests her case!!!😛

Hmmnnn' jps01, are you trying to trick me? 😲If you are filing for demurrer as the judge I will have to overrule the demurrer, elephant or no elephant. Lessan and indi are still in the run and you know I love you all equally.😆😆
Coming back to the discussion, I know we will have to agree to disagree. I will not even discuss how unworthy or wicked the M&Ms were. That is already established and agreed upon. The point here is about R's nature and feelings. Yes G did ask R to leave the M&Ms alone but it was easy for him to say that as he was not the emotionally involved party here. What options did R have?
1. Agree even though her heart did not and be miserable. (G knew R could not even eat anything the entire day as her family was hungry. At least that should have made him more concerned. Anyway not judging G for that).
2. Do what she did to preserve her own sense of right. (Now she was as hurt with his ultimatum as he was but she at least tried to say sorry multiple times with no effect on G)
3. Stay back in LN but take up a job where she can have the say and independence to give the money to whoever she wants.

Option 2 is what she did but it did have disastrous results. She was traditional enough to follow through her marriage even if it was by deceit but her sense of pride and wishes needed to be respected too.
Option 3 is probably the path what I would have taken as the answer has to be in the middle. As traditional as I am, there is a bit of feminism that will not let anyone dictate on what I should do.

Now option 1 would have made R weak completely against her nature. I have always been arguing with everyone that just because R was not loud, quarrelsome and violent it did not make her weak because she always chose what she wanted to do. To me R was a strong person with amazing will power and her strength was in her silence. That I why I was upset with the "New Avatar" .It was not the silliness or childishness that bothered me but her acts of screaming/ language and also hitting G. I was appalled when she said to G that "maar maar kar ganja kardungi" (I will beat you until you go bald). 😕That is not the language our R would ever use memory loss or no memory loss. I know they were doing this for "humor", sorry it failed to tickle me in any manner. 🤢

Edited by vanfan - 12 years ago

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pensink91

@pensink91

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#99

Originally posted by: jps01
Leesan and Vanfan Di, I do believe that G had a discussion with R about her M&Ms situation (remember when they sat on the floor) and he told her calmly that he understood but that let's give it sometime before he does anything for them (or something to that effect)! In the hopes that maybe they would change, but the snakes they were, they couldn't see good even if it smacked them in their disgusting faces!!! When he found out that R was giving them food behind his back, he was mad and most husbands would be mad I believe!!! 😡

Now, G loved R fiercely and in his anger he said choose between me and them, she choose them!!!! I understand what she stood for but for god's sake, after they did everything they could to separate them which she was aware of - she walked away from him instead of them!! G's world crumbled and buckled as he did not expect this. In his mind, he never thought that R would walk away and leave him alone! Here, I think as an Indian woman, it is definitely wrong! We are brought up to believe that when we get married, our husbands are our life partner and next to god. Even as independent as today's women are, that custom/respect towards the husband is still there! 😡

So, even though I understand how much love R had for her M&Ms, you do not jeopardize your married life!! I believe G lashed out in anger, not that he wanted her out of his life. Everyone reacts to pain in different ways and that was his way and I am sure he lived to regret the day!!!

Team Guddu rests her case!!!😛

I totally agree with you. Guddu loved Runjhun so much and he supported her to the extent of buying PN for her Amma. But she was blinded by her love for her M&Ms and left the person who lived only for her happiness. She forgot all the pain they had inflicted on her and Guddu but could never forgive Guddu for not letting them live there. So its not that I hate one and love another, I feel she should have understood him too.

Believe me many men would react the way he did, that you want to support the snakes who tried to destroy your life then fine you have leave and go. And ina successful marriage both have to make compromises but R never compromised as much as G did. Many have argued in the past that G never changed for R, but the truth is he changed a lot for her and she always took him for granted.

@indi you are correct that we love our family so much that they would always come first but after marriage you have to understand what is right and wrong before making decisions. R knew her M&Ms were wrong but still left G inspite of everything. There were many ways she could have helped, she could have insisted on taking Babli and Diamond with her but no she chose to help them to the extent of cleaning the temple, etc when they just sat and enjoyed the fruits of her labor.

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Leesan

@Leesan

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#100

Ok, Ok first the good news!! I heard from Wafah, and she assured me that even though the forum is archived that we can continue posting, she also thanked us for keeping BBAT alive in our hearts!!!👏 As if we had a choice??!!!! My guess is that as long as we keep posting regularly,the forum will remain open...just my guess, but worth a try!! So my few but faithful,forum friends...it's up to us to keep the forum fires burning bright!!! We need to post as often as we can, and reach out to some of the other former forumers to do the same!!

Anyways, have a great day and ...please keep posting!!! Our forum is counting on you !!!!😊!!

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