The Empress strikes back! - Page 3

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_Payalj_ thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#21
@Abareil
Firstly no offense taken. We are all here to discuss only.

Next thing I think you are confusing the fictional Aryans and Dravidians shown in the show with real Aryans and Dravidians, hence the mythological references. This show doesn't touch the reality by a mile and has to be seen with the perspective that it is a totally fictional story of fictional civilisations. Only then biases will not seep in as I can easily see have seeped in your post above.

Second, about the examples you gave-

1. The rodent and the snake and the nomad.- Wrong from my perspective. Right from their as they need to survive. That's the beauty of life. There can never be one correct way. It all depends upon where you are standing.

I am not saying Dravidians in the show that is, should not have defended themselves. It was their right to try to survive.

I am saying that Aryans were not wrong also. They were not villans, they were humans who needed a home, food, water and security for their wives and children who were dying in the desert.

Also, since you don't believe that survival is the first duty of humans and it is animal behaviour, next time avoid eating. Plants scream with pain when we kill them, it's just that we can't hear. Chickens and goats scream w ith pain right in front of us.

many insects, birds and other animals lose their homes when we make our houses. So we should stop that also, right?

2. Coming to The great USA. If US has been devastated by a nuke attack or some other calamaty, my answer would be yes. If it's pure greed, I would condemn them.

As I said earlier also, in life there is nothing known as right or wrong. It solely depends upon where you are standing. Circumstances are the king and there are no thumb rules.

This is my POV. Please don't take offense.


Abinaya_24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#22

Originally posted by: _Payalj_

@Abareil

Firstly no offense taken. We are all here to discuss only.
Thank you payal😊

Next thing I think you are confusing the fictional Aryans and Dravidians shown in the show with real Aryans and Dravidians, hence the mythological references. This show doesn't touch the reality by a mile and has to be seen with the perspective that it is a totally fictional story of fictional civilisations. Only then biases will not seep in as I can easily see have seeped in your post above.


Second, about the examples you gave-

1. The rodent and the snake and the nomad.- Wrong from my perspective. Right from their as they need to survive. That's the beauty of life. There can never be one correct way. It all depends upon where you are standing.
I am not saying Dravidians in the show that is, should not have defended themselves. It was their right to try to survive.

I am saying that Aryans were not wrong also. They were not villans, they were humans who needed a home, food, water and security for their wives and children who were dying in the desert.
I never considered Aryans as villains. There are many kings and queens in aryavrath whom I still admire .
As u said it is important to think in others perspectives too but it is also true that we can only imagine standing in their shoes not actually can do it or feel it.
But still as I am going with my point y Aryans didn't build their home??? Y to take others??? I can understand they need home , food and safety. But they would have build their own home than taking others


Also, since you don't believe that survival is the first duty of humans and it is animal behaviour, next time avoid eating. Plants scream with pain when we kill them, it's just that we can't hear. Chickens and goats scream w ith pain right in front of us.
When did I tell survival is not a priority😲 but I am telling it differs in humans and animals. When Aryans claims themselves to be a more civilized clan , then y do this???
many insects, birds and other animals lose their homes when we make our houses. So we should stop that also, right?


2. Coming to The great USA. If US has been devastated by a nuke attack or some other calamaty, my answer would be yes. If it's pure greed, I would condemn them.
U mean if America has been devastated by these destructions and claim their rights on India u'll accept😲. I don't think I can , I can give them a place in my homeland but not my homeland. It makes difference ,isn't it??

As I said earlier also, in life there is nothing known as right or wrong. It solely depends upon where you are standing. Circumstances are the king and there are no thumb rules.
👍🏼
This is my POV. Please don't take offense.
Not at all payal, instead I am very glad on seeing ur reply😃



Word Count: 1

_Payalj_ thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#23
@Abariel To build a home in those times, one needed fertile land near the river. This is what I guess the Aryans wanted. Since that land was occupied by Dravidians, they had no option but to uproot them.
The two civilisations were so different that it was simply impossible for them the coexist. (As per the show. I am not going into reality here). If there had been a semblance of similarity the question of co existing could have been considered.

Did India not accept paarsis when they fled from Alexander's atrocities? Are they not an integral part of India today? But then there wasn't such a severe cultural gap. Can the people of USA and Syria live happily together in the sameplace today?

It is not possible for two cultures with 180 degrees apart thought process to mix and mingle, at least not in a few decades.

You can mix milk and water but not oil and water.

Regarding second point there is no connection of being civilised with survival. I am very civilised today but tomorrow if there are riots and nothing to eat with survival at risk, I can foresee myself picking up the nearest weapon to save myself and my family.

Don't think about being civilised in a peaceful current modern society. Think about survival in a society where there was no life security and the only way to be safe was to live in a fertile land surrounded by rivers. Definition of civilised also changes as per circumstances. We are not discussing 21st century. We are discussing 3000 BC.

Coming to the third point. Why would I be happy or complacent with my home being taken over. Obviously I would fight till my last breath. But that doesn't mean that people who are talking away my home for their survival are wrong.

Two people can be at exactly opposite ends and still be right from their perspective. The lion is absolutely right in hunting the deer and the deer is absolutely right in trying to save itself.

Meself thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#24
I think the major source of debate is the association of real Aryans with the fictional ones. That is what is making the entire issue a debatable one.

Dravidians ruled the land of Sapt Sindhu. The infrastructure there, the prosperity and everything good is a direct result of their toil and efforts. They did create that land. Aryans on the other hand have had nothing with them and they want to uproot the Dravidians from their land in order to survive. It is very well a matter of perspective but I am asking a simple question, thing that you created and toiled for if is snatched by someone else because of their need to survival will you simply let them? Will you not harbor hate and vendetta against the very people who tried and did that?


The fictional Aryans here want to survive, well this survival could have happened if they took refuge under the Dravidians. Or accepted them as overlords. The Parsi community in India arrived in a similar manner. They too needed to survive but they didn't wage a war instead they accepted Indian overlordship and ensured survival. The fictional Aryans here too could have done that? Could they not? But no they decided to uproot the Dravidians, they clearly kept saying "hum unka vinaash karenge" so how are they justified here? Survival doesn't translate into waging a war. It can also mean to mingle with the existing strata. Chamundi had proposed that but did the Aryans propose the same? Answer is no. And hence Hahuma's hatered is justified. The Aryans simply wanted to destroy an entire civilization and shove down their thoughts as the ultimate truth. This is where they are wrong. Survival doesn't necessarily mean destructionof existing structure, it also means adapting to the existing structure which Aryans failed at.


That is why I said. The Aryans might be noble in their fight but they are not noble in their intent. The Dravidians might not be not be noble in their fight but they are noble in their intent. They only want what is rightfully theirs. This makes them much more noble that what Aryans are. The cruelty and barbarian attitude that has now slipped in their psyche is a direct result of what happened 200 years ago on that fateful day.


P.S. Don't confuse with the real Aryans and Dravidians. The Aryan Invasion Theory is proven to be a hoax. The Britishers made use of it to rule OUR land. The Indus Valley Civilization perished on its own maybe because of collapse of trade routes or change in climatic conditions. The Aryans cam after they had perished. Also both the terms are no longer in their original context as they are indicative of linguistic groups and not familial it dynastic setting. And even if we are to argue otherwise then let's not forget the Indus valley civilization was an advanced urban civilization. The people of that civilization ran a city like no other. Even if Aryans later in came and shaped the history of Indian Subcontinent, it was the Indus Valley people who chalked out the foundation for them.
Edited by Meself - 7 years ago
Abinaya_24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#25
@ myself 👏
Exactly this was the point, for the mere survival there is no need to uproot someone's home
Let see how the story unfolds with the clash of two mighty clans
_Payalj_ thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#26
@Meself , when did I say that the Dravidians shouldn't hate someone who snatches there home? Why shouldn't they have a vendetta or try to get back their land? It's their right.
The only point that was found despicable was Hahumas's killing of her own Kith and kin in her quest for revenge. When someone acts saintly, you don't expect them to be a mass murderer.

The question here is why are we finding it so difficult to accept that two people or communities can be at loggerheads and still be right at the same time? Where is our sense of empathy?

Coming to peaceful co-existing, how does a completely patriarchal society where polygamy exists and a woman is not allowed to fight, gel with a society which works in reverse order? I will also give one mythological example here. Only draupadi engaged in polyandry and for that she was humiliated throughout her life.

I would again request that we should analyse the show after taking into consideration the fact that it is set in 3000 BC and not 21st century. We are talking about a time when might was power.

Coming back to the parsi example, they were a defeated and weakened people having lost everything due to Alexander's atrocities. They needed help. They were in no position to usurp Gujarat or fight.

Why do you think Americans take over North America or British take over Australia instead of living happily with them as per their culture. Because the powerful never bow to the meek.

In the show both the parties are equally strong so the war is continuing for 200 years.

That is the way the world operates actually even today. Who helped India in 1962? We were ravaged in that war while our friend USSR watched
The same India is able to maintain its stand today. How? Answer is simple-because it is powerful enough to do so.

When it comes to hard core survival, Principles look good only in philosophy and books. Look around, where are they actually being followed in real life?

It's very easy to being magnanimous and principled when a small sacrifice is needed, very tough to do so when everything is at stake.


Edited by _Payalj_ - 7 years ago
Meself thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: _Payalj_

@Abariel To build a home in those times, one needed fertile land near the river. This is what I guess the Aryans wanted. Since that land was occupied by Dravidians, they had no option but to uproot them.

The two civilisations were so different that it was simply impossible for them the coexist. (As per the show. I am not going into reality here). If there had been a semblance of similarity the question of co existing could have been considered.

Did India not accept paarsis when they fled from Alexander's atrocities? Are they not an integral part of India today? But then there wasn't such a severe cultural gap. Can the people of USA and Syria live happily together in the sameplace today?

It is not possible for two cultures with 180 degrees apart thought process to mix and mingle, at least not in a few decades.

You can mix milk and water but not oil and water.

Regarding second point there is no connection of being civilised with survival. I am very civilised today but tomorrow if there are riots and nothing to eat with survival at risk, I can foresee myself picking up the nearest weapon to save myself and my family.

Don't think about being civilised in a peaceful current modern society. Think about survival in a society where there was no life security and the only way to be safe was to live in a fertile land surrounded by rivers. Definition of civilised also changes as per circumstances. We are not discussing 21st century. We are discussing 3000 BC.

Coming to the third point. Why would I be happy or complacent with my home being taken over. Obviously I would fight till my last breath. But that doesn't mean that people who are talking away my home for their survival are wrong.

Two people can be at exactly opposite ends and still be right from their perspective. The lion is absolutely right in hunting the deer and the deer is absolutely right in trying to save itself.



@Bold. Yes the Indian rulers accepted the Parsi community and allowed them to follow their faith. But their was a caveat that stated no distributing the present equation. And didn't the Parsi community survive? Well not just that they thrived. Survival does not mean waging a war and uprooting the existing culture. It can also mean to mingle with your identity intact. The Aryans of Aarambh could have down that. Accepting overlordship with their identity intact. And yes that can happen. The Parsi too had a very different cultural practice than the people present in the Indian Subcontinent but no war broke out because niether tried to hamper with each other. Here the fictional Aryans not only want a land but they also want to destroy the existing civilization and propogate what they feel is the way of life. So the Aryans of Aarambh can't really be called all noble.
_Payalj_ thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#28
@Meself
Regarding Paarsis, accepting overlordship and the no disturbance clause ,please read my reply above. Before your picking up this point, I have already given my views on it.

Now coming to Aryans being noble, no they are not.
Their doing something because they feel it is essential for their survival doesn't make their act noble nor does it make them completely correct. But then in life one can't always go by the book. One also has to do what is expedient.

What I have been trying to say again and again is both Dravidians and Aryans are correct from their own perspective and depending upon their peculiar situation. Why are we hell bent on proving one right and the other wrong?

Edited by _Payalj_ - 7 years ago
Tsuyashi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#29
Apna Munda hi jeetega Na par devsena ka dil??
I really want to see her fall crazily for hottie Aryan!!!!
486792 thumbnail
Posted: 7 years ago
#30
About who is wrong between the Team A and Team D then I will say that while both are right in their own perspectives they are wrong when it comes to their individual mentalities.Neither of the two are saints.
I will give the example of a movie named Baazigar.In that movie SRK's character's father was cheated by Dalip Tahil's character who usurped all his property.As a result of that his father died and his family was destroyed.SRK's character grew up planning vengeance on Dalip's character Madan Chopra.He sought to reclaim what was rightfully his.Fine till this extent.But he toed the line between right and wrong when he manipulated Madan Chopra's unsuspecting daughter into falling for him and murdered her ruthlessly.He also killed one of her friends.This made him equally bad as his most hated enemy.Therefore even after he had reclaimed his property and destroyed Madan he couldn't live to enjoy it.Karma came back for both him and Madan Chopra.Both of them got punished for their crimes.

My point is that I cannot support the cause of either of the two teams in Aarambh since both of them are equally wrong in their thinking and methods.
Edited by --BlackSheep-- - 7 years ago
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