BR Chopra's Mahabharat Chat Club # 1| Pg. 78,79

CONTEST : IPL 2026 Prediction Game

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

Debipriya

@Debipriya

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#581

Happy Rathyatra to all of you...

Jai Shri Krishna

Quote

Debipriya

@Debipriya

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#582

@ Shivang

Enjoyed both the posts. Excellent Analysis abour Gandhari 👍🏼 !

Now regarding this sentence of your post- 'Eagerness to register the name among the people of great sacrifices without any real help to anyone or for any needful real great cause'- I am not convinced about the 1st part. I don't think she was 'eager to register her name among the people of great sacrifices'. I feel, what she did can be termed only as an impulsive decision (i. e.– as shown by BRC).

'And eventually she wasted the fruit of her TAP as she attempted again to use it out of ignorance and attachment.' – In refernce to this sentenece I want to mention that she also faced the dilemma of whether or not to give the 'Vijayshree ka aashirwaad' to Duryodhan. She knew the Dharma and restrained herself from giving that aashirwaad to Duyodhan. We have discsussed the same in Orkut 'Moral Dilemma' Thread. Just thought to mention it here, as we have to keep in mind this aspect of her character also while judging her actions.

Now going to the case of Amba-Ambika-Ambalika:- a question about Kaashiraaj- Do you think his sister was refused for Shantanu himself or for Bheeshma? BRC has left an ambiguity over here by not mentioning the exact case. I guess it was for Shantanu, not sure though…

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#583

@Debipriya

(Answers in red)

@ Shivang

Enjoyed both the posts. Excellent Analysis about Gandhari 👍🏼!

Now regarding this sentence of your post- 'Eagerness to register the name among the people of great sacrifices without any real help to anyone or for any needful real great cause'- I am not convinced about the 1st part. I don't think she was 'eager to register her name among the people of great sacrifices'. I feel, what she did can be termed only as an impulsive decision (i. e.– as shown by BRC).

Perhaps you interpreted that sentence in a different way. I meant she was eager to make sacrifice and to be among the people of great sacrifice. The words 'to register the name in the list' had nothing to do with 'Earning fame' when I wrote it. But yes. It can be understood in that manner. When I wrote those words - it didn't mean that she did that to make the world also aware about her sacrifice and to praise her for that (Although that sacrifice was going to be a sacrifice open to all obviously but I didn't mean anything about her rajas intention in that or 'show off' kind of a thing - kyun ki apne aap ko mahaan dikhaane ke liye puri life ke liye koi aisa sacrifice karega nahi parantu mahaan banne ki chaah aur jaldi me zaroor karega.). To mai to ab bhi wohi kaheta hun. Eagerness somehow to make sacrifices in life emotionally. Since her nature was virtuous, she wanted to do something great as part of her devotion or penance of life without even looking for the proper opportunity or proper manner.

'And eventually she wasted the fruit of her TAP as she attempted again to use it out of ignorance and attachment.' – In refernce to this sentenece I want to mention that she also faced the dilemma of whether or not to give the 'Vijayshree ka aashirwaad' to Duryodhan. She knew the Dharma and restrained herself from giving that aashirwaad to Duyodhan. We have discsussed the same in Orkut 'Moral Dilemma' Thread. Just thought to mention it here, as we have to keep in mind this aspect of her character also while judging her actions.

Oh yes. Why not? It is always worth to analyze everything with all the dimensions and information to look at anything objectively. I have never denied her virtuousness but only emphasized on her emotional content. At the time of the start of the war, obviously she joined other elders of the family who wouldn't have endorsed Duryodhan's act of war. And had she given the blessings to Duryodhan of victory in war, she would have proved her behaviour to be inconsistent with her neutral stance shown until then. And I don't put much emphasis on such little actions of Gandhari (After all it was just one formal action of blessings like routinely done by all elders every time before the start of new venture) against what she did out of anger eventually in the end more purposefully & decidingly & effectively from her side (Covering Duryodhan's body and curse to Krishna). Imagine how much anger and Putra moh she also must be carrying inside secretly hidden from all around which just burst out in the end. When she denied to give just a small blessings, war hadn't begun and and anything could happen. When she really tried to hit the purposeful blow through the use of her fruit of penance with great anger, that was the deciding moment for Duryodhan's life and for revenge of 99 sons. In fact, honestly speaking, harmonizing all the dimensions of her character makes it more and more complex for me to understand her character and even creates doubts about her nature of mismatch of behaviour with desires. She often tried to behave what her conscience & intellect ordered her to do what was ought to be done killing her wishes and often followed her mind and desires too. Very complicated & inconsistent character. Cognitive dissonance behaviour. I even feel very irritated with her entry in dhyutkrida bhavan right at the time when Draupadi was about to utter the curse on Kuruvansh. What was she doing before that? Was that an opportunist's entry? So my heart feels more respect for her on the contrary when I ignore such small incidents showing her greatness (because that generates doubt about her genuineness & consistency of character in private & in public and also none of her greatness showing dialogs or efforts proved to be effective and uttered with intense purpose of success). I like Gandhari offering & providing shield to Duryodhan without the incident of not giving him blessings more than Gandhari offering & providing shield to Duryodhan and also not giving him the blessings of victory shown in the serial with great emphasis with the Doha because the former makes her character (though weak emotionally) simple to understand. I mostly fast forward the scenes of Gandhari watching on CD or change the channel on TV because I start feeling irritated. I also don't like the dohas involving contents regarding Gandhari. I don't know whether the reason is the character or the actor or the combination of both but I do genuinely believe her to be a highly virtuous lady and still dislike her if I strictly follow only BRC MB version of her character. Also always shown in some grief/negativity/pessimism or the other (grief me to sada Bhishma aur Vidur ke dialog bhi hote the par wo mujhe kabhi boring nahi lage - not even the dialogs of Dhritaraashtra - And I like the acting of Girijashankar very much.). To be fair to her, the situation in which she covered Duri and cursed Krishna was too much pitiable for a mother who didn't want to harm anyone in life but wanted her sons to be on the right path and to be achievers of greatest success too and the angry devotee in her used the power and also the devotee's curse (Shiv is other form of Vishnu only) would be happily embraced by God.

Now going to the case of Amba-Ambika-Ambalika:- a question about Kaashiraaj- Do you think his sister was refused for Shantanu himself or for Bheeshma? BRC has left an ambiguity over here by not mentioning the exact case. I guess it was for Shantanu, not sure though…

Well. I am also not sure. It could be either possibility. But I don't know whether from the serial or something else, I had the belief of it to be rejection by Bhishma of Kashiraj's sister. Mujhe pata nahi kyun par yahi information thi ki Kaashiraaj ki offer Bhishma ke liye hi thukaraai gayee thi and that was because of his oath. Kashiraj may not have liked that despite the fact that reason was oath because Bhishma was breaking the tradition and he was too young at that time to have proved his steadfastness on his oath. It was only after such incidents that he must have become famous for his steadfastness in oaths. But since I don't know whether the source of my information is serial or something or it was just my interpolation of some dialog, Shantanu is also possible. Lalita or Lola or other members might be knowing about it better.

And happy Rathyatra to all members.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 15 years ago

Quote

Debipriya

@Debipriya

Dazzler

Posted: 15 years ago

#584

@Shivang

Loved to read the analysis⭐️ .

I do agree with the 1st part of your post, specially –'she wanted to do something great as part of her devotion or penance of life…', this part is very true.

Now something on these sentences- '…harmonizing all the dimensions of her character makes it more and more complex for me to understand her character and even creates doubts about her nature of mismatch of behaviour with desires. She often tried to behave what her conscience & intellect ordered her to do what was ought to be done killing her wishes and often followed her mind and desires too. Very complicated & inconsistent character. Cognitive dissonance behaviour.'

Gandhari is definitely a complex character. All your points about Gandhari being a Virtuous as well as an Emotional lady is correct. I completely agree with that. Kabhi to usse Dharma ki baare me bolte hue sunte hai, but uski actions wo support nahi karte. In that sense she was a perfect match for Dhritarashtra, who was also a person of Knowledge but lacked the courage to follow the Right path.

Gandhari had the sense of right and wrong in her, she tried to follow that path also (we can find that mostly in her dialogues with Dhritarashtra and Duryodhan). She repeatedly tried to clear the vision of Dhritarashtra as shown in the serial with dialogues like- 'Jo sinhaasan aapka nahi, usse apna kehte hue aap kab thakenge maharaaj?' (something like that, don't remember the exact words😊). Each time Dhritarashtra mentioned about his 'uchchakaansha', Gandhari countered him. So that proves that she had the essense of Dharma in her, only she was too emotional person to implement that successfully in her life.

Completely agree with the sentence- 'Imagine how much anger and Putra moh she also must be carrying inside secretly hidden from all around which just burst out in the end', definitely she had all those Emotions even though she was a devotee of Shiva but still she belonged to 'This World' and to its attachments. That is where the limitation of her character lies; she was virtuous but may be her Level of Knowledge was not that much higher so as to leave the side of Adharma. This lack of Intellect in her paved the way for those wrong actions on her part.

Her act of cursing the Lord is indeed pitiable- I also think so, it is only her Emotion which prompted her to do that. Here she can be seen as a very very weak character and too much attached with 'Putra-Moh'. Ultimately this Putra-Moh emerges as the main point which binds Dhritarashtra and Gandhari together. It is evident in Dhritarashtra from the very beginning but always present secretely in Gandhari too, as we came to know at the end, when she could not lift herself up from the level of a bereaved mother. That was really sad. I feel, True Devotion always brings with it the most precious 'Peace of Mind/Contentment' even in adverse situations, which was absent in Gandhari at the end of the war.

Definitely, 'Vijayshree ka aashirwaad' was a 'formal action of blessing', but even that also proves her attempt to be on the right side, to follow the Dharma in her personal life. May be a feeble one, too small to be of any real significance, but I like even that much of positive element in her character😊.

I don't have anything to support her about the incident of Dhyut Krida bhavan, her entry is indeed in such a time that it can be interpreted in various ways.

BTW- I personally love the acting of Renuka Israni, and also the character of Gandhari. On the contrary, I don't like to watch Dhritarashtra and really feel Irritated to watch Shakuni on screen. Mujhe to Gufi Paintal ki acting bilkul bhi pasand nahi hai😆.

Now coming to Kaashiraaj's offer- The point about Bheeshma is Too Good👏 👏 ! Loved this one- 'It was only after such incidents that he must have become famous for his steadfastness in oaths'. Wohi baat hai ki Bheeshma ki gungaan me mai hamesha hi present hoon😆😆.

Edited by Debipriya - 15 years ago

Quote

Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#585

Agreed with your post entirely except one paragraph about actors.😊 I personally love the acting of Girijashankar and Gufi Paintal very much. In fact more than Punit Issar (Because the reason why people like Punit Issar more is his anger expressions where as personally I feel Dhritaraashtra had much more dynamic and variety of emotions to show in his acting which he has perfectly done) and definitely much much more than Renuka Isarani.

I totally agree with the fact that Gandhari had knowledge of dharma. I never have any countering of that point. But that knowledge and even efforts had hardly any practical outcome or utility. Same applies to Mandodari but simplicity of understanding of Mandodari's character makes me like her more. And her efforts were much more whole hearted and stretched and determined. And Dhrit was far far easier target to handle for giving advise compared to Ravan. Any doubt in that anyone?😉 Aur dharma ka knowledge to swayam Dhrit ko bhi tha. But his ambition had control over his knowledge completely throughout and he wanted to twist the dharma in his own way as per his own wishes. Similarly yet differently, Gandhari though always tried to be great and to follow dharma in life through knowledge but eventually her mind won over her intellect due to her attachment. Attachment and desirewise (for the son's happiness), she is not totally opposite of Dhrit but very much on the same track secretly except the fact that she wanted their ambitions to be achieved righteously and was also sad about the fact that it was not possible due to her misfortune. She wanted Duri to be the king but only if he proved deservingness and also wished that Duri could prove the deservingness to be the righteous king but that very basic wish of Duri becoming good was not possible so she was sad due to her otherwise highly virtuous nature. This is my simple understanding of her complicated character.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 15 years ago

Quote

Gunia Namrata

@arun-deeps

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 15 years ago

#586

Originally posted by: ShivangBuch
Jai Shri Krishna Gunnu. Pranaam behena. 😊 Gyaanvaan aur madhuram vaani ki meri bhagini ko naman.

You are so correct. Great going of this CC too with posts of everyone. And those Bhagwad Geeta picture updates and siggies are too much attractive to watch all the time again and again.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww..................Jai Shri Krishna Bharatshree!😃 Shat shat naman ho mere paramgyaani bhrata!😳 I'm imressed wth Debi Di n Ur convo!!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 WELL DONE both of U!!! Dono bahut bahut badhayi ke patra ho!!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏

Quote

-PoisonIvy-

@-PoisonIvy-

Stunner

Posted: 15 years ago

#587

Hi everyone. Just dropped in to say hi. A little busy till 31st .

Havnt had the time to go through the discussions yet , will give my 2 chavannis after reading all the posts . :-)

Quote

Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#588

Hey Guys,

Long time no see, huh?😳 How's everything in this CC? It's moving at a slower pace than the other one, but there are so many great discussions going on here, love it!👏

I have been on a request hunt from various AviSig makers on IF, to update my signature box throughout this summer with the amazing work by everyone, so I have a siggie to share with all of you. It has combo pics from our BRC MB and RS's SK.

This one is made by Henna, who is an amazing creation maker from the AviSig Forum...the text I requested for this siggie is from the Draupadi Cheer Haran song from Ramanand Sagar's Shri Krishna, and I used pics of our Roopa as Draupadi and RS's Swapnil as Shri Krishna. Feel Free to Use.😃

-Janu

Quote

Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#589

Yeh Mahayudh Hai song lyrics (Posted by our dear Kushal on Orkut last year)

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Desh desh ke saare raja, senapati ya rajkumar, aaa...
Desh desh ke saare raja, senapati ya rajkumar;
Kurukshetra ki ore badh rahe, lekar sena baandh kataar,
Kurukshetra ki ore badh rahe, lekar sena baandh kataar;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Raaj raaj ke raajya maarg sab jaate samaraangan ki ore,
Jaate samaraangan ki ore;
Disha disha me gagan bhedte, goonje yuddh vaadhya ghanghor,
Goonje yuddh vaadhya ghanghor;
Rath ghode haathi paidal sab badhe aa rahe karte ghosh;
Rathi saarthi maharathi atirathi na rukta jinka josh;
Dhar dhar bhoo bhoo thara-ra-thara-ra-thar tarah tarah ke badhte yaan;
Sar sar san san sana-na-sana-na tan, dhool gagan ka chhooye vidhaan......

Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

Drishtadyumn ke sang Shikhandi, sang Drupad ke veer apaar,
Sang Drupad ke veer apaar;
Yah Viraat, wah Uttar aataa le veeron ka vaaraapaar,
Le veeron ka vaaraapaar;
Ye Satyaki hai kushal dhanurdhar, sang yaadavon ki hai sainya,
Mahaveer shastraagni chalaakar, maare shatru hare dukh den;
Magadh desh ki maha sainya sang Jarasandh ka sut Sahdev,
Chedi desh ka Dhrishtketu ye rakhe dhwaja ko uchcha sadaiv......

Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Astra shastra le badhe Yuddhishthir, param gadaadhar aate Bheem,
Param gadaadhar aate Bheem;
Nakul aur Sahdev aa rahe, le saahas ki agni aseem,
Le saahas ki agni aseem;
Paanchaali ke paanchon bete, wah Abhimanyu Subhadraalal,
Alp aayu ke maharathi hain, jinse bhay khaata hai kaal;
Paarth saarathi Krishna aa rahe, shwet ashwa rath par aswaar;
Sang Gaandeev liye hai Arjun, jiski door door tak maar.....

Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...
aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Ye saare hi Paandav pakshi, mahaashastradhar param karaal,
Mahaashastradhar param karaal;
Kintu kam nahi hain Kaurav bhi, unka bhi suniye ehwaal,
Unka bhi suniye ehwaal;
Shwet mukut hai, shwet kavach hai, shwet ashwa hain, rath bhi shwet;
Shwet vesh le, shwet kesh le, badhe Pitamah rann ke khet;
Peechhe rath me hai Duryodhan oonchaa karke chalta bhaal;
Guru Dron hain, Kripacharya hain, peechhe jinke sainya vishaal.....

Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...
aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Angraaj hai mahadhanurdhar, maharathi badh aataa Karna,
Maharathi badh aataa Karna;
Narayani liye Kritvarma, badhe Oolook, Yuyutsu, Vikarna,
Badhe Oolook, Yuyutsu, Vikarna;
Mahaveer hai Ashwatthama, jinka saha na jaaye prahaar.
Mama Shakuni unke peechhe, chale liye nangi talwaar;
Rath-yuddhon ke samarth adhipati, Du:shaasan yoddha vikaraal;
Sindhuraaj Jaydrath ka bhi rath, aataa jaise le bhoochaal......

Yeh dharm yuddh hai, yeh mahayuddh hai;
Yeh dharm yuddh hai, yeh mahayuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...
aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Jo jo chaahe yuddh rokna, karte rahe sandhi prastaav,
Karte rahe sandhi prastaav;
Kintu viphal ho gaye sabhi ke, jitne aaye shaanti sujhaav,
Jitne aaye shaanti sujhaav;
Marne aur maarne ki hi sabne li hai mann me thaan,
Sabki aankhon me hai jwaalaa, sab ki baahon me toofaan;
Shankh nagaade rannbheri ki dishaa dishaa me hai gunjaar,
Dharaa kaampati, gagan goonjata, badhe andhera, ude dhuaan.....

Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai;
Yeh mahayuddh hai, yeh dharm yuddh hai.

aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...
aaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa...

Lapat uthe shastraagni ki, jhulas uthe sansaar;
Mahaakaal hai kholta, mahaasamar ke dwaar...

Edited by ShivangBuch - 15 years ago