Karma and God - Page 10

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200467

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#91

Being an atheist is tough. You can't pin your judgment lapses on anyone else's will.

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#92

Originally posted by: debayon

Ah yes you caught me on the verbiage of humanitarian. Yes an atheist is a human too.

What I am trying to get at here is figure out where do pure atheists (whatever that means) get their moral code from. Theists get their moral code from religious theology. Spiritualists get their moral code from spiritual beliefs. So as a pure atheist where does your moral code come from and what essentially does pure atheism mean?

Lets take robbing the bank. The punishment is arresting. So you avoid robbing banks out of fear of punishment. But in the end 'wrong' in robbing a bank is not proven it is established by law. Would you follow the moral code if there were no lawful consequences? What of other actions like politeness, consideration - especially if you could get away with things - what makes one follow these things. Following a humanitarian code as a human, there is no evidence that a humanitarian code must be followed. It is just belief in humanity. So why do atheists believe in other things without empirical proof, but not God?

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sudesh kumar

@qwertyesque

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#93

Originally posted by: Summer3

An Atheist too can be moral and upright and live by their own principles.

Buddha never spoke of God either but he elaborated on the wheels of karma.

the point is if you are not god fearing you wouldnt hesitate to hurt anyone... .....kill anyone.. having self-styled concept og good and bad he could do harm to all...

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#94

Originally posted by: Mister.K.
I understand that.

There is what is known as observable universe and then there is the entire universe. What we see as edges of the universe using our sophisticated instruments is just the horizon. Some parts of the universe could never communicate with some other parts anymore; not even light. In that context, a star going supernovae in that part of the universe which is incommunicado is insignificant to us. A star going in supernovae, say, in our milkyway, might have some significance to us. So the question was, are you going to look at this from the point of view of earth or what?

I have no choice but to look at it from my point of view. For any other point of view would at best be a guess, not a fact - unless I can genuinely swap places with something else to get a different view.

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413342

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#95

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

I have no choice but to look at it from my point of view. For any other point of view would at best be a guess, not a fact - unless I can genuinely swap places with something else to get a different view.

In that case, from a local, human-centric standpoint, you don't need to amass data from the entire universe.

I still didn't get any answers to why you are convinced that karma is at play a) on earth b) in the universe.

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Believe

@-Believe-

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 15 years ago

#96

Whats the difference between surrender and Blind faith?

Edited by Believe - 15 years ago

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Googly

@mind-googling

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#97

Originally posted by: qwertyesque
the point is if you are not god fearing you wouldnt hesitate to hurt anyone... .....kill anyone.. having self-styled concept og good and bad he could do harm to all...

You're wrong here. For not being able to hurt and harm others for no greater cause, one just needs to have sensitivity, sensibility, empathy and rationality; and not fear of God.

Edited by mind-googling - 15 years ago

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Summer3

@Summer3

Trailblazer

+ 2

Posted: 15 years ago

#98

Originally posted by: mind-googling

You're wrong here. Not being able to hurt others, one just needs to have sensitivity, sensibility, empathy and rationality; and not fear of god.

Yes some Godly qualities.😆

In Singapore we do not litter mainly because there are heavy penalties (karmic consequences by the State) but quietly some people (who are not socially responsible) still do it.

Love and empathy is basically found in most human beings, in some cases it may be very deeply buried or expressed in some other less refined form such as selfishness.

Religion has generally been showing proper conduct . These days a few religious leaders have been charged for misdeeds; priests and pastors here too have been jailed for offences. A few cases are under investigation currently in Singapore.

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 15 years ago

#99

NO YOU NO KARMA- ( that is, no sense of doership)

Expanding your consciousness is balancing of karma;
Expanding your consciousness back to universal consciousness is finishing karma!

'karma' is 'stored' in energy terms. Everyone has a personal energy field- and 'your' sum total of consciousness makes up 'your' personal energy field- for your energy field is nothing but 'your' consciousness viewed in terms of energies vibrating at different frequencies. Thus… simply put of course… your energy field is a weave of energy strands, vibrating to different frequencies… reflecting different aspects of your individuated consciousness (and making up your different energy bodies.... called the physical, the etheric, the emotional/astral and the mental body). Having understood this it becomes easier to understand that those energies, those aspects of your consciousness, those beliefs, those attributes of your nature - that have merged back with the Whole; those vibrations that are in sync with their highest potentials within the Cosmos -with their original nature- Dharma; those units of consciousness which have thus finished their part in the game of separation … are what you call balanced karma!

Indeed when you take it deeper... as those vibrations of 'you' the individuation, become one with the 'universe', they do not remain 'separate' … and thus do we say that karma is 'complete/finished'!

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461339

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#100

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Ah yes you caught me on the verbiage of humanitarian. Yes an atheist is a human too.

What I am trying to get at here is figure out where do pure atheists (whatever that means) get their moral code from. Theists get their moral code from religious theology. Spiritualists get their moral code from spiritual beliefs. So as a pure atheist where does your moral code come from and what essentially does pure atheism mean?

Lets take robbing the bank. The punishment is arresting. So you avoid robbing banks out of fear of punishment. But in the end 'wrong' in robbing a bank is not proven it is established by law. Would you follow the moral code if there were no lawful consequences? What of other actions like politeness, consideration - especially if you could get away with things - what makes one follow these things. Following a humanitarian code as a human, there is no evidence that a humanitarian code must be followed. It is just belief in humanity. So why do atheists believe in other things without empirical proof, but not God?

I'd like to flip this question right back at you. Let's go by the 'stealing' example - taking something that doesn't belong to you... the theists would say this is a sin, but why is it a sin?, cause God said so?, what if God deemed it to be a morally good activity?, would theists start stealing?, this brings up Euthyphro dilemma, does God want you to do morally good acts because they are morally good?, or are they morally good because God said so?... if it's the former, then morality is independent of God, if it's the latter, then morality has no intrinsic basis, it's simply arbitrary.

Most atheists live by the golden rule, if I want people to respect me, be polite, kind and courteous... then it makes sense that I reciprocate likewise. No one likes to suffer or cause suffering, unless you're a sadist. As humans we are naturally inclined to seek as much happiness as possible and lower suffering to a minimum.

As it is, most of our morals are not derived from religious theology, if we were to live by the standards of religious texts eg/ Bible, Manu Smriti, Hadiths... then things would be a whole lot worse.

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