Resurgence | Arshi FF | Thread 2 | thread 3 link posted on page 150 - Page 57

Originally posted by: tashi26

yes Ashvini, but we have to understand laws are also made according to the culture of that particular place, like in India if a man has se* with the promise of marriage and then refuses, girl can withdraw consent from this case. This case is considered as consent taken by fraud, so case of rape.

Now, for men except few countries like Scotland they do not even recognise that a man can be r*ped. Specially south East Asian countries.

Here let’s say if it was a woman even then if she gave the final consent, she will also have to prove that consent was taken fraudulently. And in some cases even for girls it becomes very difficult to prove. Because ultimately consent was given specially if both parties were drunk.

Now capacity of alcohol, how much alcohol was consumed these are points of argument but still establishing it was r*pe (even in case of girl) is debatable.

But would reiterate dr*gs is a different case.

PS:- I would like to add saying he had put himself out there by being present in that party and still continuing to drink, so that’s his fault is not right. It’s like telling a girl, hey you got mol*sted because you were walking alone in the dark or you were wearing short clothes.

The bold part in your comment is what I was exactly trying to put it out there.

Plus with my limited knowledge of biology and men in general, it's physical nature of men to get excite real fast. Women do retain some sane part even if drunk but men have a hard time of it even when they are sane. I am not giving any excuses for them but it's my general observation. So when his body gave in but his mind didn't how can we call it consensual.

Remember that aitraaz scene, when Akshay's character also gives in for a moment but the. Realises that and walks away. But he was fully sober at that time still he gave in for a moment. Here Arnav was in a state where he was having trouble getting the phone out, he was not realising what lavanya was saying, so u have to doubt that his consent was not given. If we call out emotional infidelity then here his conscious consent was not given too. That's why I am having hard time to consider it was consensual

Originally posted by: tashi26

I also want to add on one more thing, as a man no doubt Arnav is wronged.

But if this was a case of only alcohol in his system and not dru*s, then though he can be forgiven but still because he went through a quickie or whatever, it’s still a mistake from your partners POV.

And it’s true for both girls and boys. Of course it can still be forgiven as they did not decide to do it. But still they went through the entire thing.

Guess that’s why Arnav does not shy away from accepting it was wrong.

But dru*s, is a clear case of r*pe. So if in this case I will not even once say it was Arnav’s fault.

You made me do a google Tashi. To check the laws in US. It does recognize impairment both by alcohol or drugs!

I think I am the only one here..who will give him a pass of what happened in this Rave party.

Yes he should have left. Yes he made a very bad judgment. Yes he slept with La.

But the man repeatedly asked for his driver, pushed her away. And then To me that is impairment of judgement.

(Too many cases here of similar situation with girls...and really hard to prove that they were taken advantage of)

Edited. Let me add the disclaimer..that the way he went about the divorce or not sharing with his wife why he does not want kids..or stayed away from her. He is wrong.

Originally posted by: tashi26

I am going to call you babe not bakwas ok. If that’s okay with you.

So, I am talking about the month November to December. I don’t think he was doing any background checks from October to November. He was not even in India then, he was trying to escape.

I guess he did it after the baby announcement. He might have suspected some malicious intentions by then. When exactly I am still not clear, will be after tomorrow’s chapter though. His rudeness in new year party with lunatic and when her sidekick threatens him, he gives a complete biodata of that BL’s background.

But still he was not suspecting any foul play, may be till now he does not.

You are funny😅. My name is Shradha. Ok..this makes sense

Originally posted by: Ashviniv

The bold part in your comment is what I was exactly trying to put it out there.

Plus with my limited knowledge of biology and men in general, it's physical nature of men to get excite real fast. Women do retain some sane part even if drunk but men have a hard time of it even when they are sane. I am not giving any excuses for them but it's my general observation. So when his body gave in but his mind didn't how can we call it consensual.

Remember that aitraaz scene, when Akshay's character also gives in for a moment but the. Realises that and walks away. But he was fully sober at that time still he gave in for a moment. Here Arnav was in a state where he was having trouble getting the phone out, he was not realising what lavanya was saying, so u have to doubt that his consent was not given. If we call out emotional infidelity then here his conscious consent was not given too. That's why I am having hard time to consider it was consensual

Ashvini, great insights. This is not an excuse. Men’s bodies do react differently.

If you notice my earlier comments one thing is common. I have written several times that ‘even if you put the drugs away’ from picture, I won’t call it consensual. Even if it was just alcohol, he was wasted to a point of , as you rightly said, having trouble in dialling a simple number.

Originally posted by: bakwas_serial

Just telling how things can turn in court of law.

Even as a spouse, you may not be able to understand and forgive your partner because they did do the deed.

But because we are getting to read it from Arnav’s POV here too so definitely we can say his judgement was impaired and he did refuse initially but still because he gave in it became a debatable topic.

Edited:- Don’t worry you are not the only one most of us will give him pass on this issue. But what I am trying to say in case of alcohol I forgive him, but in case of dr*gs my heart just goes out for him. Like I want to cry for him.

In both cases he was wronged just the severity differs.

Also, as a human being I would want it to be a case of alcohol and not dr*gs. If that even makes sense.

I have never said it was fully consensual emotionally. But unless the pre planning and drugs were involved I am just saying it was not rape. She did take advantage of him. But, he did give in when both were in seemingly an altered state. When he started kissing her back and removing clothes I am assuming that Lavenya thought he wanted it then. Using the logic of men’s biology opens up another whole can of worms when you’re talking about women, attraction and sex.

Perhaps that’s why in general men can engage and equate sex as meaningless easier than a woman can. In general not always.

Originally posted by: Ashviniv

The bold part in your comment is what I was exactly trying to put it out there.

Plus with my limited knowledge of biology and men in general, it's physical nature of men to get excite real fast. Women do retain some sane part even if drunk but men have a hard time of it even when they are sane. I am not giving any excuses for them but it's my general observation. So when his body gave in but his mind didn't how can we call it consensual.

Remember that aitraaz scene, when Akshay's character also gives in for a moment but the. Realises that and walks away. But he was fully sober at that time still he gave in for a moment. Here Arnav was in a state where he was having trouble getting the phone out, he was not realising what lavanya was saying, so u have to doubt that his consent was not given. If we call out emotional infidelity then here his conscious consent was not given too. That's why I am having hard time to consider it was consensual

YES YES and a YES.

That is basic biology, that's how nature has made it. One can't possibly debate on that and ask why, so the question of you giving excuses is not even arising.

That's how nature works, man gets aroused faster & easily than women, in my limited knowledge that's what i know.

His mind and body was both in denial for long but after a point his body gave in after her repeated kissing, it is there that she was coming again and again and again. That is why i am saying that even if he has given in, in his insane intoxicated situation, it was not consensual, so how can it be his fault. It would have been his fault if la would have seduced him in his sane state and he would have given in. But here she was seducing an insanely intoxicated man who after a point probably even didn't understood with exactly whom he was doing the deed.

I am not saying that the partner, here khushi, should not blame or get hurt, she definitely should, that is from a patner's emotional perspective but we as third person can definitely cut him slacks.

Originally posted by: tashi26

Well lawyers can easily prove it to be consensual, because they did do the final thing. And may not even call it a quickie, because they entered a room, they got rid of the clothes etc. etc

Just telling how things can turn in court of law.

Even as a spouse, you may not be able to understand and forgive your partner because they did do the deed.

But because we are getting to read it from Arnav’s POV here too so definitely we can say his judgement was impaired and he did refuse initially but still because he gave in it became a debatable topic.

"common societal belief is that a male must be aroused if he gets an erection or has an orgasm, therefore that means that he is willing and enjoying any sexual activity. Roy J. Levin and Willy Van Berlo wrote in an article in the Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine that slight genital stimulation or stress can create erections "even though no specific sexual stimulation is present". An erection does not mean that the men consent to sex.[30] Males can get erections even in traumatic or painful sexual situations, and this does not indicate consent.[29]"...Wikipedia

This is law...yes recent..only 12 years old.

"For the first time ever, the new definition includes any gender of victim and perpetrator, not just women being raped by men. It also recognizes that rape with an object can be as traumatic as penile/vaginal rape. This definition also includes instances in which the victim is unable to give consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity. Furthermore, because many rapes are facilitated by drugs or alcohol, the new definition recognizes that a victim can be incapacitated and thus unable to consent because of ingestion of drugs or alcohol. Similarly, a victim may be legally incapable of consent because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with individual state statutes. Physical resistance is not required on the part of the victim to demonstrate lack of consent. "

Hey I have edited my previous post, please check, I guess I am more articulate in what I am trying to say.

Originally posted by: bakwas_serial

You made me do a google Tashi. To check the laws in US. It does recognize impairment both by alcohol or drugs!

I think I am the only one here..who will give him a pass of what happened in this Rave party.

Yes he should have left. Yes he made a very bad judgment. Yes he slept with La.

But the man repeatedly asked for his driver, pushed her away. And then To me that is impairment of judgement.

(Too many cases here of similar situation with girls...and really hard to prove that they were taken advantage of)

Edited. Let me add the disclaimer..that the way he went about the divorce or not sharing with his wife why he does not want kids..or stayed away from her. He is wrong.

No bakwas i am definately giving him a pass too, but as a third person's pov.

Any partner (here khushi) is bound be hurt and i am even ok if she doesn't give a pass and asks him why he even stayed at a party like that or why he drank so much at a party like that, but again all of this is from a emotional and partially cheated upon partner's perspective. I as a third person can give him a pass.