Dharmakshetra :) - Page 21

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

I seriously don't see another reason for him supporting war other than helping Arjuna as a friend. That one is plain, simple & non-questionable.

Originally posted by: AnuMP

@Pirate King

What a fab article that was! 👏

But there are some obvious issues.

1) It fails to explain Panchali. Let me plagiarize and say, she remains after 5000 years, 'a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma'😆 Continuing in the same vein, 'but perhaps there is a key, which would be an interest she willingly and knowingly furthered'. Not as a pawn, mind you. She was too smart and too savvy for that

2) I have been trying to reconcile some time line issues. Finally came to the conclusion that Rukimini could not have possibly existed. At least not the one we hear about. He may have married a Vidarbha princess but she certainly could not have been Pradyumna's mother

(Again, this is strictly from a non divine POV)

Originally posted by: AnuMP

They have Vidur and perhaps may bring in Drona too. Karna will be next to last I think.

Since they used to Andhe ka Putra and Dootaputhra comments for Panchali, I want to actually hear about Karna's doings in the DS. Usually poor Dury gets accused of this as well.

i think they already showed karna sitting with his head down during VH.So they wont change that .Maximum they will accuse him of using that word for panchali like every serial does but they will never show karna actually ordering the VH since it will be too controversial and also they havent shown other controversial things so they wont really show this as well

some day i wish the epic as its written is shown with the controversial parts will break a lot of myths for many character's

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

Doctors, in most cases, can predict upcoming medical conditions based on current observations. G of course was not the God. But he surely had an extra ordinary intelligence. When we are talking about a politician, we must think like one. So I think G was able to figure out how was it possible to get most of warriors killed. An example is his convo with Ju soon after Ghato's death. We need reasons for him not trying a little to save anyone else than Pandavas. Satyaki was capable of handling himself. Only common sense was needed to sense nothing was safe until Ashwathama was alive. So was the case of Abhimanyu. Knowingly he got sacrificed. We can surely argue in favour of G here. But a man who could find spots in the battlefield where turning of wheels would cause upward movement of groundwater, mix with sand & trap anything falling in it, (that was how Karna got trapped) surely could have understood other threats also. I don't know for what, but G was silent many times when his intelligence was needed the most.
I don't believe all kings got killed in MB war. There were still kings when Yudhi did Ashwamedha.
As I'm searching for evidences to support Krishna's desire for Yadava domination, I seriously don't see another reason for him supporting war other than helping Arjuna as a friend. That one is plain, simple & non-questionable.

Originally posted by: ashne

BTW, did any of the P's or Panchali accuse Sahdev in the epic of knowing whats going to happen and yet keeping quiet?

Is his poorvabhas mentioned in the epic or is it a folk tale?

ya i have that question as well

because as far as i have read KMG and CE there is no mention on Sahdev's poorvabaas abilities

in case i have missed something

Originally posted by: AnuMP

Hi all

The problem is we seem to think that KK was Krishna's ultimate aim. But if we strip out the divinity aspect of it, THERE IS NO WAY HE COULD HAVE FORESEEN the war.

As far his planning went, he installed Yudhi on the throne with the expectation that Yudhi and Panchali's son would be the next in line. How would that in any way help the Yadavas except that they would be allies?

He didn't engineer that war. PANCHALI insisted on it.

If we take divinity out of krishna ji then the only reason he supported pandvas during KK war was because they were his cousins and because they were unfairly treated by kauravas and because their prosperity meant krishna jis prosperity.After all Krishna ji's grandson was installed the king of IP after Yudi and krishna ji himself accepts this at the end.This is after Dury's fall

Keshava addressed him, saying, "There are six kinds of advancement that a person may have: one's own advancement, the advancement of one's friends, the advancement of one's friends', the decay of one's enemy, the decay of one's enemy's friends, and the decay of one's enemy's friends' friends. When reverses happen to one's own self or to one's friends, one should then understand that one's fall is at hand and, therefore, one should at such times look for the means of applying a remedy. The Pandavas of unsullied prowess are our natural friends. They are the children of our own sire's sister! They had been greatly afflicted by their foes! The accomplishment of one's vow is one's duty. Formerly Bhima had vowed in the midst of the assembly that he would in great battle break with his mace the thighs of Duryodhana. The great Rishi Maitreya also, O scorcher of foes, had formerly cursed Duryodhana, saying, 'Bhima will, with his mace, break thy thighs!' In consequence of all this, I do not see any fault in Bhima! Do not give way to wrath, O slayer of Pralamva! Our relationship with the Pandavas is founded upon birth and blood, as also upon an attraction of hearts. In their growth is our growth. Do not, therefore, give way to wrath, O bull among men!"

The threat of Greek invasion came many years later during chandragupta maurya time not before that.

But since Geeta Gyan and all re-incarnations are part of the actual epic its hard for me to imagine MB without divinity

Originally posted by: AnuMP

This may be true once the war started. But till DS happened, how could G possibly know war would happen?

Helping Ju as a friend - by talking him into killing his kith and kin, or getting his sons killed or talking Ju into killing his elder bro killed without letting him in on it? Highly doubtful if it can be classified as help. The easiest way for him to help Ju was to be make sure the peace proposal got accepted but he made certain it got rejected. How is that any sort of help?

He may have been friends with Ju, but that was not his aim in the war.

Krishna ji didnt get the peace proposal rejected

Infact he always wanted peace

In Udyoga parva his speech begins with wanting peace.In just asking Dury to give back yudi's kingdom as yudi had fulfilled terms of exile .That is it

Its Drupda who says that Dury wont agree easily hence they must starts preparing for war

Peace proposal gets rejected since Dury doesn't agree with 5 villages proposal

Not just the war Sabhayata. The whole thing. Why did he start the ball rolling? There is a Yadava domination theory out there which says that he wanted to put all Yadavas in power. Its there on Boloji

Originally posted by: ThePirateKing

[DIV]This may be one reason why nobody from Krishna's immediate family took part in the war. Am thinking of other reasons why his family stayed away.

I am considering that reason only because I dont find another reason right now. Though I have an unclear idea that Krishna supported the war only for the sake of Yadavas because it was Krishna's greatgrandson Vajra who finally ruled HP & only Yadavas (though said to have been completely destroyed) flourished and became the most powerful in spite of Kurus being the winners of MB war, I don't know how true it is as I have not read MB completely. I have read a quote from CE in a boloji article which says like "Krishna silenced Balarama who questioned the immoral attack on Dury, by saying killing Dury was for the Sake of Yadavas only". Since I have not read that part in CE yet, I am uncertain about its credibility. If true, Krishna had something else in his mind which was for the good of Yadavas & possible mostly through Dury's death.

G wanted Yadavas to rule Aryavarta ultimately but did not know how to make it happen & waited for an opprtunity to pop up. It was then DS happened & he made the maximum use of it. After DS, he had 13 years to plan & execute his plan which was not impossible for him, I think.