Dharma Kshetra on Epic Channel # 3 Link to Thread 4 on PG 142 - Page 68

Originally posted by: ssroomani

Going by the lines in the CE translation by Bibek Debroy, I cannot find the sentence where Arjuna says, "this girl will also do the same." 😕

Kunti puts the onus of decision on Yudhi who after thinking for a while, says Arjuna should marry her because he won her. Arjuna refuses and says that Y should marry her first with BANS following and then says that BANS feel Panchaali should be Yudhi's wife. (isn't this a bit contradictory? 😕)

I am quite convinced that Kunti knew the "alms" was Panchaali and said those words. Y must have still felt uncomfortable and so told Arjuna to go ahead, but it was Arjuna who refused. Then there was no other way than making her a common wife, because if Y alone had married her, there was every possibility of the Pandavas splitting up later on in time.

It looks like Kunti was the brains behind the idea...and she was influenced by VV's words. Now what was VV's intention, I do not know! 😆 He was in cahoots with Krishna I think!

There is no direct mention of Kunti being a part of the plan...but if u go back a few pages, I have given citations from consecutive sections...where Kunti decides to go to Panchal after hearing of Draupadi's birth, beauty n most of all after seeing the behaviour of ALL her sons...I take it as a hint that Kunti makes up her mind then itself about making Draupadi her bahu...But that is my understanding...

Originally posted by: AnuMP

And the sorry state of affairs today in this enlightened age is that we minimize her and discount every possibility that she had more to contribute than what our patriarchal attitudes can acknowledge.

As per me righteous is not who has never done a wrong deed. Because humans are incapable of being always right. Only God can be always right. So righteous human is one who if he does something wrong accepts it, repents for it and tries to avoid it in future. Yudhishtir did it in vana parva. Krishna gave the same opportunity to duryodhan in shanti prastav. Accept your wrongdoing, repent it and avoid it in future. He even gave him a leeway hat since you won, be magnanimous and give them 5 villages

Originally posted by: amritat

There is no direct mention of Kunti being a part of the plan...but if u go back a few pages, I have given citations from consecutive sections...where Kunti decides to go to Panchal after hearing of Draupadi's birth, beauty n most of all after seeing the behaviour of ALL her sons...I take it as a hint that Kunti makes up her mind then itself about making Draupadi her bahu...But that is my understanding...

Oops. Small spurt of temper. Escapes me sometimes. I apologize.

Honestly now...I have totally stopped believing that the Pandavas were 'righteous'.
Yes they were better than the Kauravas but to be honest, they were as political-minded as the Ks...

The things that made them better are:

*They never tried to kill the Kauravas of their own accord before Kurukshetra War...They may have killed Nishada woman n done Khandavdahan(which are certainly black spots in their CVs) but they never hurt the Ks out of volition.
Thus the Lakshagriha incident and saving Duryodhan's life make them better...

*Draupadi's Vastraharan...The Ps never assaulted any woman from the K house...

*The Ps believed in co-existence. Yudisthir may have played dice to win Hastinapur but he did not assault the Ks to achieve that...More importantly, they agreed to have 5 villages...So they were ready to co-exist which Duryodhan didnt want. Duryodhan wanted everything for himself...

These are some of the reasons for which the Ps were better than the Ks...
But if we analyze their individual actions were they completely righteous?
I dont think so.

Originally posted by: AnuMP

Oops. Small spurt of temper. Escapes me sometimes. I apologize.

As you said we will agree to disagree. 😊 I will go to my deathbed in my firm belief that Panchali is Vyasa's original hero. 😆. Nope the justice for assault doesnt wash. She was willing to let Yudhi forgive J and didn't scream for vengeance against the Keechak clan. And a middle aged Kshatriya woman would not know the consequences of war?

Originally posted by: ssroomani

True, there is no direct mention of Kunti being part of plan...but we were discussing the whole thing was drama enacted to make Panchaali the common wife...in that context, I feel if there was plan to do so, it was Kunti's and not Pandavas' plan. This is only assumption, of course!

Edit: Oops, missing that word not changed what I intended to say! 😆

Honestly from the citations I read, it seems to me that the Pandavas were involved too...
Initially I thought it was only Kunti n Yudisthir, but now it seems ALL the Pandavas knew...
The trip to Panchal took place only after Draupadi's description which supposedly made the Pandavas 'inattentive'.
And they were told again later that Draupadi would marry all 5.
So it's unfair to blame Kunti alone...I feel that the Ps were involved in it too...
That is my understanding.

Originally posted by: amritat

Honestly now...I have totally stopped believing that the Pandavas were 'righteous'.
Yes they were better than the Kauravas but to be honest, they were as political-minded as the Ks...

The things that made them better are:

*They never tried to kill the Kauravas of their own accord before Kurukshetra War...They may have killed Nishada woman n done Khandavdahan(which are certainly black spots in their CVs) but they never hurt the Ks out of volition.
Thus the Lakshagriha incident and saving Duryodhan's life make them better...

*Draupadi's Vastraharan...The Ps never assaulted any woman from the K house...

*The Ps believed in co-existence. Yudisthir may have played dice to win Hastinapur but he did not assault the Ks to achieve that...More importantly, they agreed to have 5 villages...So they were ready to co-exist which Duryodhan didnt want. Duryodhan wanted everything for himself...

These are some of the reasons for which the Ps were better than the Ks...
But if we analyze their individual actions were they completely righteous?
I dont think so.

Originally posted by: ssroomani

I agree...Pandavas were more righteous than Kauravas...but then which human is perfect? Their good point was they acknowledged their sins and did not repeat them; neither did they voluntarily hurt the Kauravas in any way. With humans, it has to be comparison only...I don't think you will find the perfect person without any gray!

I agree...but this whole question comes up bcoz the Pandavas are treated as completely righteous people with no sins...in most renditions...
And worse, the blame is put on Draupadi!! 😡
'She wanted war', 'She wanted revenge'...as if the Pandavas wanted nothing for themselves from the war... 😡