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Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: prajakta567

Talking about the legends (totally for me)

Albus Dumbledore, my respect for this character was multiplied thousands of times more….so far the best sketched character I ve come across..wht an aura….wht a person whose no saint but human who had his ups as well as downs..he knew wht he did….his belief in love doin miracles than magic(dark) proved true…..after reading "Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore" was shocked than ever.."OH my God!!how can it be its Dumbledore"..but everything is justified….

Severus Snape- "A Replica of True Love"

agree completely!!! One who understood the book will res[ect Albus Dumbledore more than he/she ever did!!!(I am not oating I understood it all!!!😆)...Same here yaar..This man..Like it or not DD critics who may feel vindicated after this book(Which as someone rightly said would be the best of reading)---Harry wuldnot have survived if it hadnt for Dumbledore who was pulling the thread...who masterminded the entire play...who proved his genius and Voldy's Foolishnes!!!😆 👏

HATS OFF TO HIM!!!😳👏👏

[]S:My desktop now is full of Dumbledore and Snape!!!)😃😆

Edited by lucky_lakshmi - 18 years ago
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Posted: 18 years ago

MAKE SURE TO READ THIS ONE FRIENDS---U WILL NOT REGRET IT AT ALL

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Dumbledore in Deathly Hallows

July 23rd, 2007
  • Spoiler Alert!

If you've been following this blog over the past year, you probably thought I'd really hate what Rowling did with Dumbledore in Deathly Hallows. I don't. I hate what I know Fandom is about to do to him, but I'm quite pleased with what we learned in Book 7.

The Dumbledore backstory was the best and most unexpected aspect of Deathly Hallows, apart from Harry's death/resurrection, of course. I was quite pleased with the way Rowling handled this. I'll discuss the development of the backstory a bit, and then do some analysis of who Dumbledore truly was, and why I esteem him even more highly than before.

Hagiography vs Slander: Elphias Doge vs Rita Skeeter

Doge's article in the Daily Prophet is what we might call "Hagiography." He was writing a perfect saint out of Dumbledore, when indeed the man was quite flawed. One cannot be too harsh on Doge: it was a memorial article in the newspaper. Not the place to drag old secrets out of the closet and skewer the poor old man. But it's fairly obvious that Doge was completely enamored with Dumbledore, to the point of ignoring his flaws and idolizing him.

Skeeter, on the other hand, did her typical hatchet job on Dumbledore. While she uncovered some facts, her (un)trusty "Quick Quote Quill" spilled its spin onto the page, twisting facts and creating scandal, ready the ruin the reputation of a great man. I have to admit to a private pleasure in watching Rowling put the old "Manipulative!Dumbledore" line, so often repeated by folks in fandom, into the hands of "that cow."

I was quite shocked to realize, reading these two misguided versions of Dumbledore in chapter 2, that this book really was going to center around the character of Dumbledore.

Dumbledore's Flaws and Harry's Development

The central crisis for Harry was the character of Dumbledore. If Harry had spent all of the previous year becoming "Dumbledore's man through and through," did he still want to be? The answer to this is significant, and it needs to guide our analysis of what Rowling was doing with Dumbledore: The answer was, yes, after learning everything about Dumbledore, at the end of the story, Harry wanted to remain Dumbledore's man through and through.

That's significant, because Dumbledore's critics are going to feel vindicated by Deathly Hallows, and I don't think that will be the best reading. But we'll get back there.

Harry wrestles throughout with the question of Dumbledore, and the decisive moment comes at Dobby's death. This is incredibly significant, because it was Dumbledore, back in Chapter 37 of Order, who insisted that house-elves have been mistreated by Wizards for centuries. The Kreacher and Dobby subplots highlight the fact that Harry finally took this lesson to heart. It is while burying Dobby that Harry decides to go through with Dumbledore's plan, to see it through to the end, to trust Dumbledore. Two key quotes come to mind that I believed, after the release of Half-Blood Prince, were an interpretive key to the series:

    "If we can't trust Dumbledore, who can we trust?" ~ Hermione
  • "It comes down to whether or not you trust Dumbledore's judgment. I do; therefore, I trust Severus." ~ Lupin

And it really did come down to whether or not Harry trusted Dumbledore. After severe doubt and anger, Harry chose to trust Dumbledore, and everything Dumbledore set into motion was the right move. Only one part, the passing of the Elder Wand to Snape, failed - and that, by the way, highlights just how surprised Dumbledore was to be forced to finish his part of the plot on the Tower. It was earlier than he had expected. This is helpful in understanding why there were certain bits of information that Dumbledore had not yet passed on to Harry, such as how to destroy a horcrux. He planned to show him how to destroy the locket.

We may also be able to draw some parallels between Harry's flaws and Dumbledore's flaws. They are different, to be sure. Harry was never tempted in the same way Dumbledore was; but it was mentioned a few times by Dumbledore that the potential was there. Leaving the Resurrection Stone in the forest was a good idea, after all.

I'm grasping for an explanation for the use of unforgivables by Harry. Could it be that Rowling wanted to show us that the best of the good guys are deeply flawed? Harry went on and on about how Dumbledore was "our age" when he began flirting with an oppressive worldview, but Harry instinctively fired several Unforgivable curses at the same age.* Harry and Albus: our flawed heroes.

Dumbledore and Grindelwald

This was tremendously done! I think it's probably fair to say that, hagiography or not, Doge was right to have called this battle one of the greatest wizarding duels of all time. Dumbledore, the most skilled wizard of the age vs. Grindelwald, owner of the Elder Wand. I wish we knew how Dumbledore did it; I thought the Elder Wand was unbeatable. But one does wonder whether or not Dumbledore's love for Grindelwald played a role in his defeat, and subsequently a role in Dumbledore's belief that love is the greatest imaginable power against the Dark Arts.

Grindelwald was a wiser man that Voldemort, and watching Grindelwald taunt him and tell him how little he knew was a particularly joy. I get the impression that after his defeat at Dumbledore's hands an many years in prison, Grindelwald may have been possessed of some degree of remorse.

Dumbledore's Repentance

Dumbledore did not remain, for the rest of his life, the same man he was as a young wizard. He did not maintain the same ideas of Wizard domination; indeed, he actively fought against them for the rest of his life. In the words of Bob Dylan, his "repentance his plain." There are several key indicators here:

    He gave up his quest for the Hallows. Even at 157 years old, when faced with his worst memory, he had to relive the death of his sister.
  • He avoided the position of Minister for the very purpose of staying as far away from his own sins as possible, to avoid the temptation to go there ever again.

Dumbledore remained a flawed man, and made many mistakes, some of which I've documented at this site in in the Hog's Head PubCast before. His isolation was, in many ways, a problem: while he did trust people in their repentance and goodness, the brilliance of his own plans made it difficult, if not impossible, for him to trust others in the execution of those plans. [I do think we can find plenty of good reasons, however, that Dumbledore withheld information from certain people…but the lack of an "equal," as Rowling said, is what ultimately led to his "old man's mistakes" regarding his underestimation of Harry as young boy, which eventually resulted in Sirius's death.]

The most significant result of Dumbledore's repentance is his ability to forgive others. "He who has been forgiven much, loves much," Jesus said. Why did Dumbledore trust Snape? Well, yes, of course - because he believed in the overcoming power of love. But also because he knew, from his own experience, that it is possible to go from having very foolish, very dark, very evil ideas to a place of repentance and restoration.

Albus, Aberforth, and Ariana

Albus's critics are going to be big fans of Aberforth. I am not. (Aside from the fact that he lets me use his pub for the podcast, of course). Many will see confirmation of their views in Aberforth's words to Harry about Albus: "Secrets and lies, that's how we grew up, and Albus…he was a natural" (p. 562, US). Well, sure, he was, and in many ways, our faults continue to tempt us and haunt us throughout our lives. Albus is good at lying when he needs to. He's also brilliantly trustworthy if you have a secret that would destroy you. We simply can't criticize Albus for keeping secrets about Snape from Harry; it was the right thing to do, because he had given Snape his word. But I don't see Albus as a Master Manipulator.

The problem I have with Aberforth is that after almost 150 years, he continues to hold his grudge against Albus. Aberforth was absolutely correct about the awful things Albus did that resulted in Ariana's death. But Albus knew it, too. Aberforth's inability to forgive, his refusal to recognize Albus's repentance, is troubling. Bitterness will cause despair, will eat someone alive. This is what has happened to Aberforth: "The Order of the Phoenix is finished. You-Know-Who's won, it's over, and anyone who's pretending different's kidding themselves" (p. 562).

The rest of the conversation is brilliant. Aberforth sets the record straight about Ariana, contradicting Doge's silence and Skeeter's spin. But Harry steps in and confronts Aberforth's bitterness and what it's done to him, arguing that Dumbledore was "never free" of guilt over Ariana's death, and pushing Aberforth's bitter pessimism right back in his face.

And it's true that Albus was never free. It was his guilt over the death of Ariana that killed him, ultimately. When faced with the Resurrection Stone, a moment of weakness took over, and he wanted to see his parents and sister again. It was his deep remorse for what had happened that killed Albus Dumbledore that day. Good thing Severus was nearby.

Aberforth does come around, by the way, and joins in the final battle.

The Life and Love of Albus Dumbledore

For the life of me, I can't figure out how not dragging all his family's secrets out into the open is a lie. It's not a lie to not divulge information that is not asked for. The Dumbledores' family history is tragic, and it involves some pretty rough moments of sin, revenge, and pride. But "love covers a multitude of sins," and we all have a multitude that we would prefer covered. Dumbledore is no different. Perhaps there were moments in which Dumbledore actually lied about his family, but we never read about them in canon as far as I can remember.

Do you announce the failings of yourself and your family everywhere you go? Or do you move on, trying to make things right, make a better future?

The Gleam of Triumph

The argument against Dumbledore usually has something to do with his being manipulative and callous about Harry, using him, even. I can't imagine anything further from the truth. Dumbledore was resigned to the fate that was thrust upon Harry by Voldemort's actions. Dumbledore cared very, very deeply for Harry, and saw nothing but tragedy ahead for the poor boy.

Put yourself in the shoes of Dumbledore at the end of Goblet of Fire. For 14 years, you've been watching over the boy whom you know will one day have to face Voldemort. For two years, you've known that in order to defeat Voldemort, Harry will have to die. Harry returns from the tragic rebirth of the Dark Lord, and he explains the manner of the blood transfer.

Hope rises in your heart. All is not lost: Harry may not have to die! Or, more accurately, death will not have a hold on him. After two years of carrying the burden of the knowledge that this innocent, suffering boy will have to die in order to rid the world of Voldemort, you now know that the distinct possibility, even probability, exists that Harry will survive. Gleam of triumph, indeed!

The Death of Dumbledore

The revelation of the "Stoppered Death" plot (or something very close to it) solidified the Christ-like truth about Dumbledore: He died for the protection of his would-be killer, Draco Malfoy. He died for his own enemy. Yes, he was going to die anyway, but he was prepared to be killed at a moment's notice - taken by surprise on the tower, even - in order to save Draco. Perhaps one of the greatest lingering questions of Book 7 is, "What happened to Draco Malfoy?" Clearly, after the Tower in Book 6, his heart was no longer in service to Voldemort. I think Dumbledore's mercy was a transforming factor in Draco's life.

There's so much more to analyze, and I'm certain the comments will be full of insightful observations, questions, and declarations of heresy, all of which will shed more light on the subject of Dumbledore and correct any errors I've made. The King's Cross chapter deserves its own essay, but for now, I will conclude. I am thoroughly pleased with what Rowling has done with the character of Albus Dumbledore, the portrayal of him as a flawed but forgiven, repentant and restored man, and I look forward to your thoughts.

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Posted: 18 years ago

lol finally i found this topic 😛..had finished the book on 22and itself but somehow just missed the topic of the year 😉

as said by most of you i adored the book tooo it was simplyy mindblowing so much of action mystery suspense was woven into it that u realy didnt got time to sit and breath evenly for a bit...

hrmione was theeeeee theeeee thee best 😳..she was simply brilliant 👏 👏..loved her in each and every part of the book her wit her conviction her courage her strength her presance of mind everything was just perfect and had it not been for her ron and harry wld hav broken their necks more than once...the best i liked was her superb and brilliant plan for escaping from Mr Lovegood's house 👏 👏..i mean they realy had no time to think but this lady not only thinks of a way out but make sures that ron's family luna and her dad also end up safe after the whole fiasco... 👏 👏..simplyyy brilliant 👏

then ofcorse i loved the fact that she stayed back with harry how so ever detressed and lost she felt she knew her priorities laid with harry then...loved loved her outrage wen ron tunred up again 😳

and oh my god only she could have thot of removing phinios's potrait from sirius's house.. 👏...and the measures she took to protect her own parents...awwww....loved that part's discription it was so bitter sweet...if she survives she wld find and remove the enchantment if she doesnt they wld stil be happy as they dnt knw they hav a daughter... 👏 👏

godric's hollow was superb superb i loooooved loved harry's emotions on seeing his parents graves..i cried during that part..it was sad and realy well written 👏 👏 but the nagini attack all of a sudden was a bit unnerving and harry's waaaaaaaaand oh i thot voldemort had delebrately planned the whole thing for his wand but it tunred out to be an accident by hermione.......

ron's apprehnasions and inhibitions were so well dipicted via riddle's eyes in the locket and then harry's prominent statement..."she's like my sister i love her like my sister and i reckon even she feels the same about me, its always been that ways, i thought u knew..".... 😳 ..

i loved the apt use of sirius's mirror i mean Jo didnt turn all filmy and brought back dumbledore or sirius from the dead but still she used that mirror perfectlyy..i mean it was realy intruiging to think that the bright blue eyes belonged to dumbledore and hence wen it tunred out to be abarofth insted it was a real surprise.... 😳

hats off to hogwarts and to each and every one of those who stood up and fought in the battle 👏 👏...Minarva Mcgonagall, Flitwick and every other teacher deserves a standing ovation and so does each and every student be it from the DA or those who just stayed back for the sake of being there....i loved harry's sudden rage and his instant use of the Cruciatus Curse on Carrow wen he spat at Mcgonaggall... 👏 👏..it was only deep respect for her which could have caused Harry to use that curse to this perfection....loved the spirit in each and every da member fred george ginny seamons dean luna cho katie angalina wood and soo many many moree...but Neville 👏 👏 👏 oh my god he was superbbbbbb 👏 👏 he single handedly led the resistance against Carrows alive at hogwarts

severus snape...aha wat to say am quite shocked with the turn of the events.....though wld giv a solute to JO she used the power of love t the maximum possible extremes....had it not been for lily's love he wld never have changed he wld never hav left the dark side and turned ot be dumbledore's man....loved his last words....Look at Me...so that he could die looking at Lily Evan's green eyes....i loved that part wen dumbledore asked him do u care of the boy after all and he was like Him? and he cojures the patronus same as Lily's and dumbledore is al with tears in his eys and is like after so much time?...snape is like ...Always.....as for his loathig for harry for me its undersynadable since he always saw james in him...

though i was quite puturbed after reading al this thanx to harshu all my doubts are cleared and i can appreciate both snape's love and lily and james together😳..the way snape was killed was disgusitng and firghtneing i realy was shaken up

dumbledore's life and lies...an awesme trat to knw abt his past and his sister and all about his crrocked nose..am glad Jo showed sme flaws in this character as well who eventually turned out to be the greatest wizard by conquering his weakness....every character is a mix of grey and none a black or a white....even Bella who is the epitome of evil was obssesed by voldy's love and did everything in awy for him obviously unforgivable but stil that obssession of love cant be ignored

lily's letter...awww....it was sooo emotoinal and i loved harry's emotions while reading it it was awesmely expressed👏....a proof that lily potter had lived once....it was soo soo touching everything seemed so happy as if everybody knew tomoro wld cme and they wld be together totally unaware of the doom looming over them....and sirius gave harry his first broooom...awww...i also loved the part in the end wen sirius james lily and lupin cme to harry....

the whola harry faking death and the whole plan of dumbledore was extraordinory...by meaning to die harry actually ended up protecting each and every one from voldemort.....and the last convo between them was awesme too loved the fact that voldy was dead and harry didnt even had to utter the AK curse...as he said..his best hope to heaven...molly rockedddddddd the most unexpected person to kill bella....NOT MY DAUGHTER YOU BITCH.....👏 👏

dobbyyyyy......🤗🤗that was the saddest part in the whole book it was sooooo sooo unfair and it was then when the tragedy of the whole thing hit me....when harry was digging dobby's grave...awww...everything was so wel written i cld actualy feel the pain...and kreacher....hats off to him tooo....he was the one who got al the house elves into the battle...and sirus's bro omg he drank the potion himself 👏...mad eye hedwig tonks lupin fredddd....hats off to every single one....

the use to whcih moody's eyes was put was disgust epitomized😡

the only thing i didnt like was the fact that harry indeed was a horcrux...dnt knw smehow wld hav preffered harry being left alone without that piece of soul.....but he wasnt totaly possesed like ginny had been wid riddle's dairy and ron too partially wen he wore the locket...maybe this was coz of the fact that voldemort never intended to make harry a horcrux and moreover he did not even know about its existance else hw ld never hav dared to kill harry..it was simply an accident and maybe coz of dis harry;s larger soul survived and continued to be good and pure

the triunphant look that crossed dumbledore's eyes at the end of GOF finally saw its seeds😳....in his ignorance voldy actually secured harry's existance as long as he lived....loved the fact that jo gave so much thought to all possible nitty gritties and gave answers to almost all the hanging questions...though the mystery of the veil in the department of mysteries is still looming for mee....😛

ron and hermyyyyyyyyyy kisssed....😳...i knew this was coming the very next second wen ron mentioned the elfs...and it was a totalyyy ron hermy kind of kiss...they rock big timeeee🤗🤗

and the bestest part abt it all is that the trio stil remained the trio even in the end....even after harry's reason for being called the boy who lived was finally reseted..harry craved most for his two best frnds...this is the only only place where friendship is given so much of respect and importance...and where friendship is equally a part of life as love is in a way it is the purest bond of love two people ever share...i love adore the friendship potrayed by jo both in the trio and in james sirius lupin and infact this was the main reaosn i got hooked on to HP...the friendship here is truely devine and smoehting which realy makes you proud to have read it and felt it.....i wld like to thank my frined halshuuuuuu coz of whome i became the part of this magical world....🤗🤗...

wish the epiloue was a tad better though....my fvtttttt kids are james and rooooooseeee.........specialy roseee coz shes like hermyyyyyy😳

Edited by smritisashi - 18 years ago
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Posted: 18 years ago

Great analysis Minnee..😃

Originally posted by: minnee



Harry James Potter:☺️☺️aww!!!☺️wat to say rite???🤪we all know hes th hero!!!!😍And i am truly relieved tat Harry 'n Ginny r married and with kids too🤗

yup probably wht all us harry/ginny fanz wanted..but after reading a few posts i hav to say that ginny's character inthis book was not as significant as inthe previous 2 books..😭she shud've been wid harry if only for a lil bit of time..helping him fight horcruxex..oh well...and i SO wanted to see them married..u know..the 5 brothers wud've given him a hard time eh😆

Originally posted by: minnee


Dobby's death!!Hedwing's death!!Gosh Hedwing had to die in th beginning itself!!🥺🥺

Hedwig's Death was DEF. Very Unexpected and sad and she was angry with harry that he wudnt let her out and luk wht happend😭..but on the same note i was expecting himt o get a new pet as in the pheonix Fawkes..😕there was no mention of it though..harry did shhow that he was loyal to dumbledore..he truly walked in dumbly's shoes..😳

Originally posted by: minnee



And Snape's true identity!!!😈i knew some love story might crop up🤪it did!!!😆But Harry it was very late wen u recognised that Snape was innocent,His only aim was to protect u bcozz u were Lily 'His lady love's' Son!!☺️☺️

that's one character who really really truly touched my heart!! and his death..the way he died..was just not how i wanted such a brave hero to die..and even though his luv for lily mighta been selfish in the sense that he only cared abt her..keep her safe even if her son and husband died..buh..i still feel his luv was sooo tru..rowling..like i said before..didnt spend a lot of time on showing us how truly james loved lily..❤️(i know he did though)..but it feels like snape's love for lily touched my heart more than jame's..perhaps cuz v didnt get to c a lot of james..😭

Originally posted by: minnee

Albus Dumbledore:🤔🤔i dont know wat i shall feel to him????i was shocked seeing he had already masterplanned that Harry must die😲😲i thought he was thinking of protecting Harry!!!


all i will say is..i was..SHOCKED!!! SHOCKEDD! like even though v all had an inkling this truth was comign hwoever to hear it like that from dumbledore's mouth..to knwo that dumbledore ALWAYS KNEW harry had to die at the end..gosh that was..just shocking..sort of betrayal..but he was right ofcourse..however...😭😭

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Posted: 18 years ago
i finished the book too. i fink its really gd.
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Posted: 18 years ago
Why weren't the other horocruxes more heavily protected?

The hardest ones to find/get were the ring (magical traces detected by DD) and the pendent. The rest were just sitting around waiting to be found.
Why didn't VD put more enchantments around them?
Possibly because Harry would not be skilled enough to find them, thus leaving us reading about him in the tent forever?
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Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: daisyUSA

Why weren't the other horocruxes more heavily protected?

The hardest ones to find/get were the ring (magical traces detected by DD) and the pendent. The rest were just sitting around waiting to be found.
Why didn't VD put more enchantments around them?
Possibly because Harry would not be skilled enough to find them, thus leaving us reading about him in the tent forever?

Well, this is what I think about the other horcruxes:

1. Lucius did not know the diary was a horcrux and just thought he was cause some trouble by giving it to Ginny.

2. Voldemort gave the Cup to Belletrix to keep safe and he thought that no one could steal it cuz it was in Gringotts

3. Voldemort thought he was the only one who knew about the Room of Requirement at Hogwarts, so he didn't bother trying to protect the crown.

4. And of course Nagini would always stay by his side so he thought no one would be able to get to the snake.

The one horcrux I wonder about is Slytherin's ring...I think I forgot or something...How did Dumbledore get the ring? Did he go to Gaunt's house or something...I think I'll have to read that part over again. But I think that's why he didn't put any protection on the other horcruxes.

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Posted: 18 years ago
hey uh did the snake nagini die?? i kinda 4got cuz its been a couple of days since i read the book.....im gona have 2 reread the book soon....
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Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: winnie7500

hey uh did the snake nagini die?? i kinda 4got cuz its been a couple of days since i read the book.....im gona have 2 reread the book soon....

Harry had told Neville to get rid of Nagini if Ron and Hermoine fail at it. And it just so happened that the sword popped out of the Sorting Hat, since Neville was a true Gryffindor and importantly, he needad it at that time.

Since the Gryffindor Sword had the potential to destroy a Horcurx, Neville was successful in killing off Nagini!

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Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: rutumodi915

Harry had told Neville to get rid of Nagini if Ron and Hermoine fail at it. And it just so happened that the sword popped out of the Sorting Hat, since Neville was a true Gryffindor and importantly, he needad it at that time.

Since the Gryffindor Sword had the potential to destroy a Horcurx, Neville was successful in killing off Nagini!

Yeah, i'm glad neville had his moment,😳 although i think he should have been the one to kill bellatrix

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