Some reflections on a few episodes - Page 2

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187214 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: pardesi-mem

Wow, your analysis have left me awestruck Shvetalji! ๐Ÿ‘ You have pinpointed all the details which make LRL's continuity questionable. I really admire how you break-down the characters and your thoughts on the army were beautifully expressed. ๐Ÿ˜ณ I agree that the regime is tough and i have respect for the soldiers but it is disturbing how people can be shaped to be so rigidly obedient.
I'm appreciating Gaurav as an artist more and more with each episode as he consciously makes an effort to add mannerisms to suit the character's changing moods and expressions. ๐Ÿ‘

Thank you! Thank you!

Lrl's continuity and even sanity are questionable at times, though i still think the show has a great premise and lots of potential.... for instance, the entire issue of Alekh's demotion is also so much about class and how the class you belong to can shape the circumstances available to you.... but they never took it further, instead made it part soap opera, part Laawaris scary hybrid.

The army is one of my 'never to be resolved dilemmas'.... can go on and on about it.... and agree with what you are saying, it does shape you to be rigidly obedient.... in fact, thats very well put!

As for appreciating Gaurav, its just about watching him at his work.... i like the term you use... 'artist'.... thats how i think of him too ๐Ÿ˜Š

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Posted: 18 years ago
#12
Shvetal... read it all over again...loved every word .... have a strong desire to be a professor of Literature... can u help me? ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
187214 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: superbike

Shvetal... read it all over again...loved every word .... have a strong desire to be a professor of Literature... can u help me? ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜†

Teena waise mere saath rah rah ke tum half professor of lit toh ban hi gayi ho... dheere dheere full bhi ban hi jaogi!!

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Posted: 18 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: whynot

Thanks a million for the appreciation! ๐Ÿ˜Š

As for the ability to analyse Abhimanyu, didnt i say he's my ideal guy?! ๐Ÿ˜Š

I dont think the new track is fair to the cadets.... the writers should not go on changing their characters so randomly.



ya true the current track is not in favour of the cadets. They r being pissofied between Cap. Rajveer & Capt. Ahimanyu.
And I believe future epi too r going to b the same.๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿ˜Š
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Posted: 18 years ago
#15
hmmmmmmmm very good points ..i agree on most of them but disagree on a few lk wen u say dat alll the cadets suddenly turn to raj i agree coz nobody can take the place of the first teacher its but natural
187214 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: arss

hmmmmmmmm very good points ..i agree on most of them but disagree on a few lk wen u say dat alll the cadets suddenly turn to raj i agree coz nobody can take the place of the first teacher its but natural

I do not disagree with what you are saying... as i have said in my post as well, their relationship with Capt. Rajveer is great.... but there is no reason for their suddenly being mean to Abhi. They can love Raj while still being nice to Abhimanyu.

Edited by whynot - 18 years ago
spian thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: whynot

Welcome Back with a Bang-!!!๐Ÿ‘

2ndly, this show has to be the most tacky one that i've seen regularly or written about.... that entire red flag thing wasnt even unintentionally funny.... i cant even say 'good intentions, bad execution'.... any writer who writes 'bhagodon ki ghanti ke paas ek laal kapda chod aana' has no good intentions to begin with.... cant say 'what were you thinking' becuase obviously you were not thinking at all. Though to be fair things did improve a bit as they went on.... lots of small touches that i liked, not just by Abhimanyu/Gaurav but also by the show as a whole but cannot talk about them individually since this post would then become really long.... will mention one though: the cadets scene, where they talk of how they came to be here, was well done though the light on/off thing was irritating because it was too fast.... needed to be slower.... and perhaps Priyanka should have stopped doing it at all when she was speaking....effects of skillful use of light come on their own, dont need to be forced by constant repetition.... the best use i have seen of this effect in Hindi films was a scene in Dil Se.... but thats another story ๐Ÿ˜Š

Agree its mediocre scripting or story.๐Ÿคข

And finally, there is absolutely no logic for the cadets behaving the way they did....they love Captain Rajveer a lot and thats great.... but they have never been mean people.... to suddenly show them as being so mean, so thoughless is very unfair to their characters.... koi consistency jaisa kuch hai ya nahi... parson aalekh ka tilak ho raha tha, yudi was praising Abhimanyu in the hunt.... suddenly they are all ignoring him, puja was comparing him to Akshay Kumar.... kuch reason dikha dete iss cheez ka.... aise hi randomly they start.... uffffffffffff!

I think its in their age they are indecisive have strong likes/dislikes. With so many choices and no directions its confusing. As they grow this will change. Not that it justifies the poor storyline.

Ok, back to the analysis... I'm going to do this by breaking it into two:

Abhimanyu: Yes Abhimanyu, especially in the first three episodes that i saw, is insecure.... unsure of his place in the world.... unsure of his ability to occupy the place where he is.... and i love him for that!! Honestly, if you were to ask me right now whom i prefer from Gaurav and Abhimanyu, I would say Abhimanyu.... unlike Samay..... Samay's passion was thrilling, but in real life Abhimanyu is my ideal guy.... charming, tender, passionate about music... and finally a believer in non violence... something that i believe very very strongly in.... and jealousy, insecurity, possessiveness....these are very familiar demons.... i've struggled with them and still struggle with them from time to time.... and i do feel that all of us struggle with these demons regularly or once in a while.... and that the interesting stories are not of the people who never feel these demons inside them but of those who feel deeply, are deeply jealous or insecure, fight it, learn to live with their own selves and grow as human beings in the process.... good and bad are all relative and i'm happy that Abhimanyu is a little bit of both, though i love the character precisely for these follies, for these failings.... makes him a challenge for Gaurav the actor by adding newer layers to the role.

Well I cant choose since the real Gaurav is still not known and I havent seen Samay ..about Abhimanyu โ€“he comes across as a believable and real character hindered only by mediocre story and wretched portrayal.

But here's a moot question: Can such a temperament survive in an army?... Realisitically speaking, no. How has someone like Abhimanyu made it so far?.... Army training is structured in such a way that it instills unthinking obedience.... everything else is secondary to that.... 'yours not to question why, yours but to do and die'.... and from an army's point of view, i can understand why unquestioning obedience is necessary.... because it is that which enables survival in critical situations.... when there is uniformity of codes, it is easier to put one's life in the hands of another.... it is easier to kill when one thinks of it as following an order rather than the taking of a life.... i have read narratives of soldiers which say that the nation becomes an abstract concept after a long time at the borders, in the trenches.... after a point, one is fighting simply for one's brother in arms and one's officers.... but as an individual, i am also deeply uncomfortable with the idea of unquestioning obedience.... the army is something that i have very ambivalent feelings about... deep respect for those who embrace it unflinchingly but also a fear of what it does to the human soul. To come back, Abhimanyu is in that sense a very ambitious character.... i do believe that there may be many soldiers who do not believe in violence... but then that needs to be better etched.... how does his philosophy work in his day to day life for instance.... is that the reason for his being in special intelligence rather than combat?.... but what the team behind the show seems to have forgotten is that one cannot start by showing a character's philosophy in crisis.... one has to establish the character and his philosophy first, then show the crisis.... warna it becomes confusing for an audience... because they see the philosophy/character through the prism of the crisis only...

Yes the misconception is that Army is all about violence. Army is also about strategizing, resourcing, surviving, bonding, technique. If you have read "Arms and the Man" you would know why. Compare the anti-war hero Bluntschli with Abhi and it makes sense.This drama provides you apt reasons. Even Catch-22 rebuffs the autocratic/tyrannical rules and systems of the army.

spian thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#18

Originally posted by: whynot

To come back to the show, Abhimanyu fouls.... in the heat of the moment and the angst of the situation, he wants to win.... for once in his life not lose and take it sportingly.... be more than just a spectator.... and this makes him thoughless, cruel almost.... very unlike Abhimanyu so far.... but i do not think that this one action/scene ruins abhimanyu's character.... its a weak moment.... and we all have weak moments when we are thoughtless and cruel.... what i loved about the scene was the immediate emphasis on how hollow this victory is... i think Gaurav did this scene very well.... the jubiliation of winning, and not a shared victory but a personal one.... and it had to be personal since the faculty was never playing as a team.... they were all doing their own thing.... this personal celebration and then the realisation that the happiness that one gets through this may be at the expense of someone else.... what i loved was that Gaurav did not overdo the regret part of it.... there was no 'oh my god yeh maine kya kiya'.... aise nahi hota.... just the realisation that you have hurt someone (here, literally not just metaphorically!).... and trying to comprehend that, trying to make sense of this new side to you that you have discovered... With the furrowed brows and the tired rubbing of forehead, i almost wanted to say 'hang in there... we've all been there.... you are a better person than this and you will survive this... apologise, be ashamed of it for some days and then get over it.... dont let this become who you are.... let this be something that you leave behind'....
The ability to hurt people is so very seductive.... especially when one feels misunderstood. I couldn't wait to see the next episode, to see where this would take Abhimanyu.... would he continue enjoying the power to hurt?.... or would he fight the demons within? or would he simply still live from day to day, as he has been doing for the past 2 3 days....
Well Abhimanyu is not in the mood to be relenting or accept things said to him anymore... must say that the delayed letter bit was worthy of a soap opera.... but the rest of the scene was surprisingly well written.... Abhimanyu feels the world is against him.... has misunderstood him forever and for always!....but almost all people, especially senstive ones or maverick ones, end up feeling this once at some point of time or the other in their lives.... yes there is an element of exxageration here, alongwith an element of truth.... so this is how he is going to be for sometime.... good.... but i really want to see whether this is going to become a permanent feature of his personality or not. I'm already missing the sunny Abhimnayu.... will miss his democracy and peace loving nature as well.... but since he's not a real life person, ๐Ÿ˜‰ will enjoy the character however he develops.
Incidentally, KMA mein constanly aisa kuch na kuch hota hai jisse Capt Rajveer and Abhimanyu are placed in competition with each other.... this academy has no concept of utilising its manpower through greater bonding and teamwork!
Finally, the yellow is forgiven.... because of the black! ๐Ÿ˜Š
I found the scene in the locker room very interesting... i liked the way Gaurav showed hard, cold anger.... the kind of anger that is resentful and wants to lash out.... wants to be heard.... this is the kind of anger where the sense of injustice is so strong that its impossible to stay quiet.... and i will repeat that usually in such circumstances there is a little bit of everything: a little bit of truth, (the cadets have been unfair to him) lack of perception (for instance, Abhimanyu is blind to Capt Rajveer's concern in this scene), lack of judgement (at this point, he cannot tell right from wrong and trusts no one), sense of injustice (this has been happening to me all my life and it is unfair), exxageration (the world is never as consciously against us as we feel, partly because it isnt even aware of our existence ๐Ÿ˜‰), the desire to taunt, to hurt (hum prince hai, yeh problem hai?), petulance, indifference, sarcasm ....
To digress completely, i feel these are the moments when what the other person needs most to hear is 'you're being completely unreasonable but i still love you' with a big hug to accompany it.... and it is in such moments of wallowing in self pity that we most need friends to be kind to us, to understand.... unfortunately, it is also in such moments that other people least understand because it is true that one is being unreasonable.... thats the root of so much conflict in so many relationships. Anyway, will leave the lecture here.... though i think the interpersonal dynamics of this friendship are interesting, as is, so far, the character of Abhimanyu.
Gaurav: Ab Abhimanyu ke analysis mein tareef kar di na.... subah ki post mein bhi kar di.... bus ek din ke liye bahut ho gaya! Upto his usual level of competence i.e. very good.... see how quickly i get used to the usual level! Seriously though, 'he, he's good'.... said in a very Marlon Brando kind of way! ๐Ÿ˜Š

Yes I liked the scene a lot. There were some great dialogues by Abhi like "hamesha yeh hamare saath hota hai", "Sab log hamesha best ko hi yaad karte hai".. hum 2nd, 3rd, 4th best rahe hai par.. and more The face was showing the pain he felt for being on the loosing side. He was hurt and felt awful and the ego didn't let him accept being the second best. 'Kissi ko kuch bhi problem nahi' is so natural and full of his anger and frustration. "Problem kya hai, sab keh rahe the, hum bhi khel rahe the" jaanbhuz kar toh nahi kiya was the final acceptance in heart and denial in words. He knew he was wrong still tried to defend himself just the way its done in real life. Still he was undeterred and angry at the allegation. Now he grudges" Yeh Prince of Barmer mein taunt kyu" Softly he comments 'cadets ko bhookha rehne se bachaya aur talaiya kisko mili?" So very real reaction for lack of deserved credit. The emotional turmoil was so nicely etched out is reflected in "Hum ek ache sipahi nahi baan sake, Prince of Barmer jo hain, โ€ฆ.Hume shanti pasand haiโ€ฆhum nahi kehte ki bandhuk uthao aur goli maro" This was simply outstanding and riveting.
Next the way he whispered after receiving the letter post deadline was brilliant 'Chod na ..hamare saath hamesha aisaโ€ฆ.' The whole scene makes you feel for him and sense his pain and sorrow. And then shows the letter and says 'cant you see URGENT'โ€ฆ.
It ends poignantly with Hamesha peeche rah jateโ€ฆaage nikhalne ka waqt aa gaya hai. There will surely be some change in his characterization, I just hope the portrayal and scripting is great.
My choice is let him be Bluntschli any day.๐Ÿ˜ณ
187214 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#19
Hi spian... you asked for this, ab bhugto ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜†
While i agree with you that there are many narratives that question army regulations (my fav film version is A Few Good Men while in lit it has to be Catch-22), i do not think this is happening in Left Right Left... in many ways what is happening in Left Right Left is more adolescent.... friendship, love, identity, discovering your own identity, jealousy etc. I'm not saying that these narratives are less real or less painful but i do not think that the story is questioning the army the way Arms and the Man and Catch-22 did.
2ndly, sweetheart, in my post i did not make any claims for the 'real Gaurav'... when i said real life, i meant me and people like me.... and yes i keep forgetting that i should not take everything back to Samay! ๐Ÿ˜Š
To come back to the two texts you mention, even their criticism of the army has more layers to it.
Arms and the Man/Bluntshcli: Shaw knew the pulse of his audience well and was at the same time engaged with social issues.... thus while criticising the army, Arms and the man is also a popular comedy of its time.... what i mean is it is as much a romantic comedy as a criticism of war. Bluntschli is not ideologically anti-war, he is not even an anti-hero, he is the hero.... he may be comic.... he may mock conventional notions of courage and carry choclate in his pockets instead of ammunition, but the focus of the play is on him from scene one.... the audience, like the heroine (i've forgotten her name, Romana was it?), discovers Bluntschli through the course of the play and respond to him... he is the one whose lines they laugh at, he is the one they want the heroine with, he is the one they learn to laugh at the war with, though neither he nor they can escape the war.. whereas Abhimanyu is ideologically anti-violence.... and now he is questioning everything his life has been so far and turning his back on it.... which i think makes him different from Bluntschli.
Catch-22: I still have to make up my mind whether to forgive you or not for comparing this classic to Left Right Left. ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜†.... Catch-22 is written in the Absurd tradition.... its a crazy, mad book.... and it does not question only war or army regulations.... it also questions concepts like society, bravery, nationhood, sanity..... what is a nation?.... why does one kill others or kill oneself for the sake of it? what makes it ok, legal and even brave to go on killing people at one point of time in history because the government wants you to while the same thing done by a person not in uniform is homicide and punishable by law? what is sane? what is insane? if a soldier goes mad after killing so many people, who is responsible for that lapse of sanity?.... if someone fakes insanity to avoid killing people, is that ethically a better choice to make?.... what is war?... who takes the decision to fight it? and who are the people who live that decision out?.... who profits from it monetarily?.... what is the self and how much can a sensitive self take of the continuous horrors of war before it loses its sense of reality?
These are some of the questions that Catch-22 asks.... and it asks them crazily, using black humour, because that is the only way Yossarian can understand the world around him, make some sense of it....
Left Right Left.... even to mention it after such a text is sacrilege.... all i'll say is that it is not doing any of the above things.
But its nice to know that people still read books ๐Ÿ˜Š
187214 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#20
Since i never stop once i get started on my fav texts, here is a small excerpt from Catch-22. This is that part of the text where the term 'Catch-22' is explained:

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr (lt. Orr is one of the major characters) was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

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