Live from India... - Page 9

Alright MR (would love to know your real name since it is kind of awkward calling MR but of course you reserve the right to reveal the name at a time of your choosing😛),...Here is my rejoinder...

First of all my responses to the original thread were moot points as rejoinder to Persy's post. Unfortunately, I disagreed with most of her points and my disagreement was misconstrued as impoliteness which I again disagree with😉. A debate is a debate is a debate is a debate....The debators reserve the right to express his/her opinion....The counters may be agreement or disagreement...If you are a true debator you will (like Persy) respect the opinions...

I like how you have countered my points.....though there is a touch of anguish in the tone but I tend to ignore that tone and will concentrate on the salient points that you have put forward....If there are missing rebuttal to some of your observations it is because I have intentionally ignored them to keep the debate healthy...😉 See my response in orange...

Originally posted by: reeps

hello, this is not persy, but her sister. chameli ka yaar wrote some stuff and said some things about persy and persy isn't coming on net bc she doesn't have acccess, so i will reply. These are all my opinions, not persys. Main point of post is that chameli ka yaar, you are blinded by your patriotism for india and when persy complained about india, which she has full right to do, you made some crap about her. she doesn't have an elite attitude in her post. she told me that she was frustrated and just felt like writing it out, so she wrote it in a post. I am sorry to hear that she feels that way. Most of the tourists includingmy white boss who recently went to India had nothing but positive things to say about India although he was a touch facetious in describing some of the things like traffic conditions...😆...None of my early responses insinuate to my patriotism and I am not going to say that I am not patriotic...but my responses are not guided by my sense of patriotism..they are comparative in nature...

1. the fact is that india is extremely hot in the summer. it is the tilt of the earth's fault, not india. persy is not blaming india or comparing it to US. just listing a fact and the way the car she was in worked. Tilt of earth does not make the whole of India hot...There are very cool places as well....just like any other country which is tad close to equator...Southern part of US is no less hot in summer than say New Delhi in India....In fact the LA heat is more unbearable because of lack of humidity...You will get a skin burn in less than 10 minutes if you stayed out in open sun in LA....In Delhi it will take you longer than that because of humidity...Flip side is...You can run in the afternoon in LA without getting sweaty and you can sit aoround idle in New Delhi and will still get sweaty.....See the postivies and negatives...😉...All you have to do is figure out how to make the best of what you have...

2.persy's body is not used to spicy restaurant food, so her body is weak. she never drank from arrowhead bottles. her immune system has nothing to do with america vs india hygeine or food. this has to do with what food she is used to eating. we eat very little spice in our house. u keep comparing for no reason. to my point....Her/you immunity is her/your own doing.....I have no such problem....I can tolerate spicy food...and btw...most of the middle class families in India use Aquaguard filter...even Indians don't drink water outside in India...They usually carry filtered water with them...You or Persy is not expected to drink water outside....You are no different from rest of Indians...Your intolerance of spicy food has nothing to do with India.....It is your body which is used to less spicy food....So if you go to a restaurant...tell them to make the food less spicy and you shall not regret....Why hold somebody else accoutable for no fault of theirs...?

3. fact is that delhi does have pollution-air, noise, etc. so does america, and other countries. and incorrect overtaking and driving a bike in the middle of a car lane is dangerous. i think it is sad that you think it is ok to do this bc it can hurt people. and i want to see where you are getting your facts for more accidents in india than US. i think it's the other way around. Unfortunately I have not seen any statistical data published by the Indian Transport authority...but based on my experience, I have not seen as many accidents severe/fatal ones as I have seen on US roads.....The traffic condition is not the best but you have to get used to it....Once you do (which takes time), you may not despise as much.....As I said before, when I go to India and drive, I just meld in that traffick conditions...Rash drivers are all over the world.....There is no dearth of rash drivers in Los Angeles (I wish somebody else from LA could corroborate what I am saying here😆...I seem to be the lone ranger from LA).....The air pollution is a problem in India specially in big cities and more so that most cities in the world...however, I want you to take heart in the fact that the government is doing everything they can to reduce pollution...I can testify (and I am sure several others on this forum) that he pollution level in N.Delhi has significantly decreased in last 3 years since the historic Supreme Court judgement of replacing the diesel driven public transport with CNG driven ones...

5. it not justifiable to say that well india system is better than some others, so it's not bad at all. it is bad, others are worse, but it is still bad. and india not discriminating on skin color... many indians discriminates on the caste system. and i would rather like it that i don't get discriminated at all by anyone. Can't disagree with that..Wouldn't we all like to, in a perfect world?.. how is it better to be discrimnated by fellow indian than a white frenchman. persy is not trying to be elite, u based your opinion about her personality on nothing. she didn't say anything about expecting to be treated like a "VIP."i think you are so patriotic for india, u can't handle any criticism or somebody unhappyness with india. Well the way the frustration is expressed at the political system, medical system, taxi driver etc etc...insinuates to that "preferential treatment" syndrome.....and trust me....I have seen that....and maybe Persy is not one of them...but there are several who, the moment they land in India, expect to be treated preferentially because of "Coming From America" syndrome...😉...What they don't realize is that they aleady get that, thanks to our culture of subservience...but if they show off that they want that treatment...they are in for harsh reality.....and yes...I find it extremely difficult to digest that a Frenchman refused to tell an Indian family the meaning of a sign on the railyway station and sniggered....because an Indian is not likely to do that to you....

6. cops, hospitals, the way the political stuff works is a little crappy. but saying "go with the flow" and "when in rome.." is wrong. It is not OK to live in a system that doesn't work. i think it is democratic to complain. if we don't complain, how will things change. I ever defended medical system...I am as disappointed with the medical system in India as you are but I won't generalize and rubbish the medical system by saying that it is crappy.... There are nice hospitals which give you better treatment than you will ever get in US.. They are expensive and exclusive but if you want service you will need to pay for that....Goverment run hospitals are wrong place to go in the first place....forget you...even my family in India won't dare go to a Govt run Hospital...😆

7. the dera sacha sauda is a huge issue, especially for me as a sikh.i am happy she brought it up. you wrote in your comments: "deal with the reality..don't compare US, india systems, etc" SHE NEVER DID. u are the one who started it. and for #6, she never blamed all of the country. you are just making stuff up. Comparison is very palpable, my friend....even though it is not said explicitly...Read all thesentences before the red faces in the original post... sentences in conjustion with red faces....well...all of a sudden one day, India didn' become ugly....obviously it is a perception of somebody who has probably encountered the situation first time...meaning that s/he is comparing the situation with something where s/he may have never encountered these situations.....Chances are the comparison is with where that person has lived most of his/her life....When I say "Go With the flow.....In Rome, do what Romans do"....I meant every single word of it.....I face these problems as well and I am sure most of the people here have been faced with these problems..... the difference is that I brace myself in advance for such problems..... it is like, I am planning to visit Egypt sometime next year, I have braced myself for the heat that I am going to face....I have braced myself to stay out of certain places in Egypt that are likely to be unfavorable to a tourist.... I have braced myself for the shutdown which may occur because of a terrorist bomb blast....I am not going to complain about that...I already know the reality..... Does knowing the reality mean that I never go to Egypt?

8. I am paraprashing: you say indian people will wake up at 11:00 pm to help you and americans won't. I can't believe you are stereotyping this much. It is a reality and I am not beseeching your agreement on this...but it is a reality...This makes me so mad when indian movies and shows show this type of crap. Indians will go over all bridges to help you?? I don't watch Kekta serial, my friend....It is a reality from my real life experience...Please!!! Some Indians will and many many won't. I never said all....I said...there will always be "SOMEONE" to lend you that helping even in the most of the ungodly hours...same as in all countries.sure....but I haven't seen same kind of bond develop among the neighbors here as I have seen in India... Get out in the world and you will realize that all people-humans are the same. Indians are not better helpers than any other country people. And the storekeeper example you gave... this has nothing to do with india vs america. in a small town in america, where everybody knows everybody, the storeowner will give stuff out if no wallet. same in small town india. but in big city mall, no matter what country, if the storeowner doesn't know u, he has to be pretty trusting to give out stuff. I think you should stop being so ignorant about people in india and america. You are generalizing way too much. Nope....again...real life experience...This is not stuff out of Kekta serials or movies...and you are right...there are helpful people across the world....Americans are one of the most helpful people (sadly I can't say the same thing about French populace😆)...Remember...In your original post several category of people were questioned....Cops, Politicans, Doctors, Drivers etc...at the end of the day, outside of their professional lives, these are all people.... who are being questioned.....and all I gave you was an insight into....there is a person with a different face across the fence...just try looking over the fence...that's all

To me, You sound like you have the superiority complex about india. 😉...No comments😊

From,

Persy's sis, MR.

Originally posted by: ChameliKaYaar

I tend to ignore that tone and will concentrate on the salient points that you have put forward....I have intentionally ignored them to keep the debate healthy...

Much Appreciated!! 😊👏👏

Great points points both of you!👏

Originally posted by: #1EijazFan

I back CKY up 110%. 😊 So well said! 👏
I think reeps sister took up this debate in a completely wrong manner.
The meaning of a debate is where people get the opportunity to agree or disagree with you, and if their opinion is not valued by other members then it is definitely not her fault. 😉
CKY, you are right! There are infact more accidents in UK than in India despite the heavy traffic problems. They have so many trucks with goods yet less accidents there. Yes, people can be very foolish while driving but then again that's there in every country na? 😛

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

well-said!

To the Indian Trump card of one female PM -
what did that one woman prime minister achieve in terms of doing justice to women in india? u r deviating from the main topic....the ques. here was of leadership of both genders and not of women liberalization
why is the girl:boy birth ratio toppled in india ?due to female foetecide????
why is bride torture for dowry not history yet?
why parents / their parents 😉 still care about having a sapoot over a sapooti (majority, i know there are exceptions)

look at these facts-

Indians have shown the world over they can compete with the best and be the best, and We find it insulting that people keep insulting our people who have that desire to be the best.We are sending rockets to space and produce High class communication satellites. We are doing great in software, our nuclear program is unrivaled. Our military is the toughest and the fiercest. It sad that ppl always find the grass to b greener on the other side.We remember fighting china. We remember going against even American's patent tanks and blowing them to pieces.It is typical. Whenever NRIs (except some patriotic ones) see an article on India vs. China (or US) predicting a great future of India, they feel so disgusted that they fill all the comment sections to show their anti-India emotions. It gives them reassurance that their decision of leaving India after a lot of expenditure was worth it. They came to US, Canada, Australia etc. Had to face racism. Had to work hard (even in McDonalds). Thinking that it will pay off. Then they see these articles mentioning that India is going to be superpower. It makes them feel angry and frustrated.

I agree India is far behind US in terms of technology, justice and infrastructure.....but there r many good points too....if felt the need i too can point out many shortcomings of the US.....but i dont want to.....i only get angry when ppl call my nation bad

Originally posted by: preeti_saarrthi

Originally posted by: reeps

Just giving u good points as u wanted some from this very post😊

Hey guys,

I have come to put down my frustrations on paper. Where do I start? I think I will go by bullet points.

Nice way to get rid of frustration. India is democracy and hence you can voice your opinion. You go to china and voice your frustration and you will get bullets and so in many other countries..... India is far better than many countries in the world in this respect

1. I am in India at the moment; it is supposed to be my vacation. First thing first.... don't ever come to India in the summer; you are gonna self-combust.😆 It's so damn hot; on top of it the AC's in the cars' do not work at all in the hot weather. 🤢

Its the nature here. It comes in the area of earth which becomes hot in this season. India has nothing to do with it. Probably you selected wring place. If u had been to Himachal its a lovely atmosphere there this moment and I am sure you would have enjoyed the vacations there. Even Indians going to europe in winter will have problems with cold weather, so it does nt make the country bad... u come in winter to delhi it will be chilling cold.😊

2. Jai ho US! Mera immune system weak kar diya. I can't enjoy the damn food; it makes me sick, but after a week here, I appreciate US a lot more.😊

That is because you are used to USA food and Water. Even I cant enjoy Pizza and burger, it makes me fat and sick. Also food differs from each home with amount of oil and ghee.... I am sure the US people cant immune a lot of ghee....😊

3. I think O2 doesn't exist; It's hard to breathe, especially in Delhi. So much pollution, not only air pollution, but sound pollution, too.🤢 The mindless honking, well not so mindless honking.... bikes, rikshaw, three-wheeler (or "bhoondi" so my dad calls it😆) cars, busses, trucks, cows😆 all on the same damn road, the size of a single lane in US.🤢 How are cars to pass if a bike drives in the middle of the road?😡😆

You transfer the population to USA and you will have narrow lanes in USA as well. I agree with the pollution levels in the city. Even USA has pollutions but its not evident because of the huge infrastructure they have built after 200 years of freedom, as against just 60 years of freedom for India. USA has earned all the money through selling weapons to different countries and snatching peace all over the world. So no wonder people there are happy at the expense of the happiness and peace of whole world.... so I wont say Jai ho US

4. Passing, that reminds me of OVERTAKINg! God knows how people drive here. I am still in a state of shock; people drive in a two-way street as if it is one way.😕 They overtake when a vehicle is coming head-on in the other lane. IT's really scary. Then nobody bothers that a car is coming from front, slow down a bit. The first day, our driver went thru RED light.😲 Nobody saw it. I am sure if anybody had seen, NOBODY would have done a damn thing.😡 Thank god, seat belt pehente hain. I am glad I am still alive.😃

You are still alive because he was Indian driver. If it was american driver he would meet with an accident the first day in India. delhi is metropolitan and every second holds value for the people so they do overtake in hurry. I would not say its a good thing. But Indian Infrastructure has not been built that much as yet. and traffic makes you do this things of breaking the signal and overtaking. But the drivers are wise enough to see what is the risk involved.😊

5. Now to the damn government! 😡 Pretty useless.... mera vacation karab ho raha hai... cause of the damn Saccha sauda people!😡😡 What egotisitic people!! NOt ready to apologize after hurting sikh sentiments. The guy appears to be a criminal. 🤢 They shot somebody at their dera....And the organization claims to be for human values🤢🤢. If he is so willing to talk to the other side, why not just apologize. IT won't make you little.😡 I tell you, a damn publicity stunt... that's all it is.

I think the time u came and place you came turned out to be wrong. This is not the general situation in India. The amount of violence are increasing. The police cant do anything because the same people marches to parliament in the protest of lathicharge or firing.

And the cops are pretty useless.... I was to go to Golden temple, but the damn road is blocked😡 by the so called akali people, and the sacha sauda people😡😡 ... WE turned back; who knows when a riot might break out.😭 The cops were just standing there, waiting for the people to move rather than moving them so there is no inconvenience for the traffic.

They cant do lathi charge or firing for lakhs of people.... they dont have that much force....

I want to go shopping, but the akali's seem to have shut down the stores in protest...😡 the govt. is divided on the damn vote-bank... congress is supporting saccha sauda people (haha, ironic name)😡 and the akali govt. is not sure whom to support; they just might loose their damn elections.😡😡 NO, votes matter more than people's sentiments, and peace in punjab.😡 My dad said that the stores are closed cause of the akali people.😭

Its not everyday affair..... If it was then u would not find the shopping malls as they cant earn. So it was just bad timing I would say😊

The stupid govt. is letting everything spin out of control. Had the police filed a FIR and a case filed against the so called "guru", all this might not happen...people are out on roads with their swords who knows what can happen. I think the govt. and cops are intermingled too much.... should be a separate dept😡... all I hear is that ruling party won't interfere in police matter, but police works on cue from the govt, and they are doing nothing....alll for damn votes, and the opposition is supporting the dera.🤢😡 HOw can anybody resolve a matter in this system???🤢😡

If he was arrested, there would have been violence by now because he has supporters in lakhs.... he is not a small person, he is a guru of dera with huge number of followers.... eventhough there will be some cases against him, it has to be assured that violence does nt erupt before taking major step. As for giving justice in one case they cant keep violence going and kill so many innocents.

The protests are not only in India, You saw them in USA during Iraq war, You saw them in germany during labour bill.... Even developed countries have few days like this

6. Also, there has been a bomb blast in masjid in hydrabad; the people are throwing stones at the cops, and in protest have shut down hydrabad.

There was a air attack in USA .... does it remind something... this bomb blast claimed 6 lives much lesser than the WTC tragedy😊

7. Hospitals.... uff, had to spend entire day in the hospital.... supposed to be one of the best hospitals in Chandigarh... yeah right; might have all the services, people are very polite, but the system again is so damn ridiculous...very very frustrating😡... Docs are never in their rooms; Make the patient wait forever...bechare patient ki jaan nikal jjayen chahe😡... and reason, 'lunch par gaye hain'. Damn their lunch...what is this lunch 9-5 ka lunch😡😡. And then there is no first come first serve basis.🤢

I bet you have overstated your frustration here.... If it is a government hospital I agree with u.... but if its private hospital and best as u said.... definitely the doctors are real responsible in India... regarding waiting yes because of the population problem.... and for visits, they already give appointment timings to regular patients... so it is as per that....The doctors in India work any time 24X7.... I have seen my uncle working in nights on surgeries.... u cant wait for some lunch time???? But yes the number of doctors per patient in India is less that is because of population

I am tired of typing all that is wrong with India, and all that is going wrong! 🤢 I seriously do not know how people in India tolerate all this nonsense... life is hard.

You are used to comforts, while Indians are used to hard work. India is still a developing country. But it is really better than most of the developing countries in the world.😊

Meri vacation is getting ruined!😭 I hope riots don't break out; people are gonna die cause of dirty politics. It's all good from far away, but to live in teh middle of this ruckus is admirable, and courageous.👏👏

Its just bad time.... but if because of this vacation getting ruined you dont come back... u will miss a lot😊

What do I say? Yeh hai MERa INdia!🤢😭😃

A request to the mods... please do not move the topic to another section; I would like to hear everybody's opinion on all I have written... especially on politics, how the system operates in time of crisis, the cops, the hospitals, and what not!

I will keep you guys updated; please pray that everything goes back to normal.😊

Persy

Originally posted by: preeti_saarrthi

yeah yeah.... the Infrastructure that they built by selling arms to whole world😉

Originally posted by: SholaJoBhadkey

Agreed Tania. Life can be such a laid-back experience in India. My husband visited India for the first time in January 2007, and all he remembers, apart from the museums and monuments, is the luxury of having things done for you. We had a chauffeur, a cook, a cleaner. Our clothes were washed and ironed for us. Tea would appear at the mere mention of the word. These are such luxuries in the "developed" world that sometimes people find it strange being served! I never have any problems with the crowds, or the dirt, or the pollution because I grew up in Delhi, but to a foreigner these services seem like manna from heaven. TC is already planning the next winter holiday 😆.

The only thing that kind of disappointed me was the long queues at the airport and very few immigration counters. In a country teeming with educated, computer-literate young people, how come we don't have enough people working at the immigration desks to alleviate this problem???

With the renovation of airports in process this problem is solved..... it never took me much time at immigration in India😳 rather i had bigger queues in thailand as the traffic is high here.... The road traffic is also bad in bangkok however u wont hear any honking here on streets, except from my bike😆

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

6. Also, there has been a bomb blast in masjid in hydrabad; the people are throwing stones at the cops, and in protest have shut down hydrabad. Why blame the entire country and people for an incidet or 2 like this? Why make your opinion about the entire country for a blast in Hyderabad? Would you say the same thing about Washington D.C just because a madman murdered 37 students in a Univ Campus? Don't hold the entire country hostage. That is a very myopic vision.

I disagree. How many people came on streets and hampered administration for that? One mad man is not justifiable, but what is worse is too many madmen protesting and joining irresponsible destructive activities as a mob, which Indians constantly keep doing - Angelina, richard gere, valentines day- everything gathers these bunch of people to create some riot-like mob situation

I agree with the protestation on every small issue.... but this protestation is necessary for this govt...

cd u see tht the mumbai train blast case investigation is nowhere.... in last 2 months 12 jewellery shops have been robbed In pune and we dont expect them to even protest...??? Now their association passed notice to keep chilly powder, hockey sticks and guns in the shop....

7. Hospitals.... uff, had to spend entire day in the hospital.... supposed to be one of the best hospitals in Chandigarh... yeah right; might have all the services, people are very polite, but the system again is so damn ridiculous...very very frustrating😡... Docs are never in their rooms; Make the patient wait forever...bechare patient ki jaan nikal jjayen chahe😡... and reason, 'lunch par gaye hain'. Damn their lunch...what is this lunch 9-5 ka lunch😡😡. And then there is no first come first serve basis.🤢...I will agree with you on this point. Even I have my frustrations with doctors in India. But my frustration is not with their timing, it is more from the accountability perspective...meaning that I am scared to go to them with a flu symptom lest they give me medicine for curing Kidney cancer..😆

I hate those here too.. 😆

Strangely I never faced this problem in India.... We always got better treatment, the medicines are subsidized and the costs are really less as compared to many countries..... but yes the number of hospitals and doctors is less as compared to population😊