A few things about Draupadi, How true are they? - Page 8

@Nora. 😊 Vyasa telling Pandavas and Kunti was strategy, not prophecy. If you have faith, then it's prophecy, of course. And that's cool. Either way, he did tell them. There is also textual evidence Panchali and Krishna knew beforehand. The only people who needed to be told after were Dhrishtadyumna and Drupada. As for the drama in potter's hut, it doesn't look like Vyasa told them Panchali knew.

@Lonewalker. 😊There is textual evidence Krishna told Ajuna to kidnap Subhadra, and that Krishna himself tells Balram that it is good for Yadavas if they have this connection with Pandavas. Arjuna never even talked to Subhadra before. He never even verbalized the idea she was pretty, let alone ask for her hand in marriage. Krishna not only instigated it, he planned it.

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

I clearly told it was my pov. It's okay if yours is different😆

I asked you if it was your opinion or Arjun said so himself, the instances you stated do not say that Arjun preferred subhadra because he didn't treat any of his wives differently, He couldn't take Chitra and Uloopi, Draupadi didn't have any condition or vow against their wife's presence in Indraprasth, it was normal for Arjun to take his wife back home.

Krushna illustrated two way in which a Kshatriya marries a woman - Swayamvar and Abduction. Arjun went for Draupadi's Swayamvar and abducted Subhadra.

Therefore, I don't believe there was any love story involved in Mahabharata, I respect your opinion but I need facts to accept it

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Nora. 😊 Vyasa telling Pandavas and Kunti was strategy, not prophecy. If you have faith, then it's prophecy, of course. And that's cool. Either way, he did tell them. There is also textual evidence Panchali and Krishna knew beforehand. The only people who needed to be told after were Dhrishtadyumna and Drupada. As for the drama in potter's hut, it doesn't look like Vyasa told them Panchali knew.

I read the text you provided, Thank You for that it helped me understand things clearly

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I asked you if it was your opinion or Arjun said so himself, the instances you stated do not say that Arjun preferred subhadra because he didn't treat any of his wives differently, He couldn't take Chitra and Uloopi, Draupadi didn't have any condition or vow against their wife's presence in Indraprasth, it was normal for Arjun to take his wife back home.

Krushna illustrated two way in which a Kshatriya marries a woman - Swayamvar and Abduction. Arjun went for Draupadi's Swayamvar and abducted Subhadra.

Therefore, I don't believe there was any love story involved in Mahabharata

Draupadi did put a condition that the Pandavas can marry other women but they can't bring them to live with Draupadi. Draupadi will be the solo queen of their palace. Were there any other wives living with the Pandavas? No as far as I know. Not even any other Pandavas brought their other wives with them. Subhadra was the only exception.

Arjun & Ulupi's story is different. It was Ulupi herself who approached Arjun & took him with her to Kaurvaya. She expressed her wish to marry him & Arjun had initially declined her advances. Ulupi had to convince her to marry him. It was not the other way around.

Arjun Chitrangada's story has many versions. It is mostly believed that she was Manipuri princess. It was their tradition to have only one child & since Chitrangada was the only child of then King Chitravahana, she was the heir of the throne. And then her son would be the heir of the throne. Arjun stayed with her for 3 years & then moved on with his exile. Did Arjun propose to take her with him & she refused? She was bound by the tradition & couldn't leave her kingdom and Arjun knew about this before marrying her.

As for abducting Subhadra, well yes, it was Krishna's idea but Arjun went along with it. Krishna had asked Arjun whether he likes his sister & Arjun expressed his wish to marry her. He had said to get her he will achieve anything that is achievable by man.

(Refernce - https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01222.htm)

And Krishna hinted at abduction. Arjun took it knowing he didn't have any other chance as Balaram will oppose it. And Balaram did oppose their marriage & Krishna had to convince Balaram to accept their marriage.

@ Bold : I had stated in my earlier post that by love I didn't mean love as it is today. back then things were different. But it is unjust to assume that everything revolved around politics as well. If political alliance was all that was sought, Krishna could get Subhadra married to Yudhistir as he was the King. Or could have suggested Bheem should participate in her swayamvar if the competition was to be mace fight. But Krishna opted for Arjun instead as Arjun was interested in her. Even though political alliances were built by marriages, not everything is about politics. They were humans & they could very well have affection. Among all the marriages of Arjun, Draupadi & Subhadra are the ones that are remembered the most. Arjun's marriage with Draupadi was not a normal one. He had to wait 4 years for his turn once the 1 year assigned to him was over. Subhadra was the one with whom he spent most of his time & Subhadra brought him the joy of family life. Considering all things, I belief Arjun was more besotted with Subhadra than his other wives.

It is not something set in stone. It is my analysis. You are free to disagree.😳

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

Draupadi did put a condition that the Pandavas can marry other women but they can't bring them to live with Draupadi. Draupadi will be the solo queen of their palace. Were there any other wives living with the Pandavas? No as far as I know. Not even any other Pandavas brought their other wives with them. Subhadra was the only exception.

This is false info spread by Devdutt Pattnaik and Star Bharat. Panchali put forth no such condition in actual text. Moreover, Nakula's wife is mentioned (Dhishtaketu's sister) in text in Kamyaka vana portion, waiting for her brother to take her back to her parents' home as the Pandavas were leaving on exile.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03022.htm

Also, Krishna doesn't simply HINT at Subhadraharan. Arjuna never says a word about Subhadra. Krishna asks would you like to marry her, and only then, Arjuna says yes. Then, Krishna BLUNTLY TELLS Arjuna to abduct. It was Krishna's plan throughout. They even inform Yudhishtira beforehand. Then, Krishna tells Balram the alliance is good for yadavas. It was 100% political.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01222.htm

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

This is false info spread by Devdutt Pattnaik and Star Bharat. Panchali put forth no such condition in actual text. Moreover, Nakula's wife is mentioned (Dhishtaketu's sister) in text in Kamyaka vana portion, waiting for her brother to take her back to her parents' home as the Pandavas were leaving on exile.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03022.htm

Also, Krishna doesn't simply HINT at Subhadraharan. Arjuna never says a word about Subhadra. Krishna asks would you like to marry her, and only then, Arjuna says yes. Then, Krishna BLUNTLY TELLS Arjuna to abduct. It was Krishna's plan throughout. They even inform Yudhishtira beforehand. Then, Krishna tells Balram the alliance is good for yadavas. It was 100% political.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01222.htm

Oh ok 🤔 But then why Draupadi was so upset when Arjun returned with Subhadra? And Subhadra had to dress up as a servant & appease her first? I always thought it was because Arjun broke the condition that she had put forward.

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

Oh ok 🤔 But then why Draupadi was so upset when Arjun returned with Subhadra? And Subhadra had to dress up as a servant & appease her first? I always thought it was because Arjun broke the condition that she had put forward.

Just for appeasement I guess xD It is said that Draupadi always had a soft corner for Arjun, hence they probably knew it would be natural for her to be upset with Arjun's wife.

Subhadra Arjun's marriage was political, yes. Arjun abducted her because of Krishna's words but he was NOT forced. Wrong information was spread by StarBharat about this. Yes Arjun Subhadra were not in love, but it is utter rubbish that he was madly in love with Draupadi and hence he was unwilling to marry her or something. Arjun and Draupadi weren't in love before marriage either. Just saying.

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

Oh ok 🤔 But then why Draupadi was so upset when Arjun returned with Subhadra? And Subhadra had to dress up as a servant & appease her first? I always thought it was because Arjun broke the condition that she had put forward.

Actually that drapaudi being upset about arsu marriage sticks out like a sore thumb for an empress to behave like that specially fpr someone like drapaudi who didn't loose her cool even in the dice hall where worser things happened to her its quite very indigestible so i think that was just an interpolation/exaggeration on vyasa s part and so was drapaudi/pandavas missing arjuna when he was on exile .as the story is being narrated to janemya who was arjun s grandson .

When that delightful festival of immense grandeur commenced, Vasudeva and Partha went about, together, beholding everything around. While wandering there, they saw the handsome daughter of Vasudeva, Bhadra by name, decked with every ornament, in the midst of her maids. As soon as Arjuna beheld her he was possessed by the god of desire. Then, O Bharata, that tiger among men, Krishna, observing Partha contemplate her with absorbed attention, said with a smile, 'How is this? Can the heart of one that rangeth the woods be agitated by the god of desire? This is my sister, O Partha, and the uterine sister of Sarana. Blest be thou, her name is Bhadra and she is the favourite daughter of my father. Tell me if thy heart is fixed upon her, for I shall then speak to my father myself.'

"Arjuna answered, 'She is Vasudeva's daughter and Vasudeva's (Krishna) sister; endued with so much beauty, whom can she not fascinate? If this thy sister, this maid of the Vrishni race, becometh my wife, truly may I win prosperity in everything. Tell me, O Janardana, by what means I may obtain her. To get her I will achieve anything that is achievable by man.'

The above extract is quoted from KMG. Please note that Arjun was very much smitten by her and desired to marry her. Krishna didn't put it on him to marry her. He clearly said, if he wishes to marry her, he would speak to his father.

Moreover, Arjun was very much interested. So it's a little strange to say this was completely political. Note the parts underlined.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Just for appeasement I guess xD It is said that Draupadi always had a soft corner for Arjun, hence they probably knew it would be natural for her to be upset with Arjun's wife.

Subhadra Arjun's marriage was political, yes. Arjun abducted her because of Krishna's words but he was NOT forced. Wrong information was spread by StarBharat about this. Yes Arjun Subhadra were not in love, but it is utter rubbish that he was madly in love with Draupadi and hence he was unwilling to marry her or something. Arjun and Draupadi weren't in love before marriage either. Just saying.

I think that was just an exaggeration because the story is being narrated to janemya who was arjun s grandson.