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rudr_26 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: April2007


I live in the west and have lived for many many years and I am a fan of western music, I listen to western music more than Indian music. I didn't find Vaishali's song lacking western feel or style whatever SM was referring to...maybe Indians in India have diff feel for western singing..

In my opinion Vaishali and Nihira are better singer than many in champion side..I find judgement very flawed. Somehow male vocales are being more appreciated than female voices. Nobody can convince that men are singing better than all the women on the show..we know that the greatest singer in India is a woman...that the reason I mentioned that there should have been a female judge to balance the judging team.


First of all, living in west does not make you expert in western music. Many of us HERE live in west and have significant exposure to western music. That exposure can happen living in any part of the world too. So living in west is irrelevant in today's time.

2ndly, your comment "//maybe Indians in India have diff feel for western singing//" is totally uncalled for as you are undermining knowledge of people living in India. Ask anyone here, will tell you the same.

Now you are bring conspiracy theory of gender biasness that you need female judges? And by doing so, you practically insulting judging panel out there. will Putting a female judge ensure that other female contestants will go to champion side? then that female judge needs to be biased against male as per your logic.

The fact is Vaishali on that Day, did not sing at par and criticism is justified from SM. She might do well in next episodes. Also don't forget that putting at champions side is not only on judge's hands but also lies on voters hands. So start voting for Nihira if you wanna see her in champions side instead of bashing judges here.
April2007 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#22

Originally posted by: rudr_26


First of all, living in west does not make you expert in western music. Many of us HERE live in west and have significant exposure to western music. That exposure can happen living in any part of the world too. So living in west is irrelevant in today's time.

One doesn't need to be an expert to know the feel of the song, an average listener living in the west in English speaking country will know immediately if the western feel is missing..we's don't need to be an expert in music to tell us if the song's western feel is missing. I don't think English is the language spoken on the streets of India...only 10 to 11 percent can understand english..

In answer to underlined..

When you live in France you get exposure to french music not English..in Africa you get exposure to African music..to get the exposure you need to be immersed in that environment..it cannot happen anywhere..even though you may think so..the environment you live plays are major role in shaping up your tastes and it is not irrelevant in today's world.



2ndly, your comment "//maybe Indians in India have diff feel for western singing//" is totally uncalled for as you are undermining knowledge of people living in India. Ask anyone here, will tell you the same.

Knowledge and feel are different things..you must have noticed that converted are more religious and fanatics than the people who are born in the religion. Similarly Indian English speakers somehow think they are being fooled by thinking they somehow are expert in nuances and tone of English language ..it was very apparent from the judges remark, I don't think he knew what he is talking about (that is my opinion).

I don't think any westerner will pretend to understand the feel of Indian song, they will never feel undermined if you tell them that they are wrong..since when knowing the feel of western song is associated with being knowledgeable..



Now you are bring conspiracy theory of gender biasness that you need female judges? And by doing so, you practically insulting judging panel out there. will Putting a female judge ensure that other female contestants will go to champion side? then that female judge needs to be biased against male as per your logic.

No conspiracy theory..you should think before you come up with this kind of logic

All the interview panels, i have been interview by or have been on, have both man and woman panel members in order to remove gender bias and also to have perception of fairness (it is not just important to be fair, the perception is also very important) ...same goes to all the jury selection, the jury consists of members from different ethnic group and genders.. American idol has always had male and female judges.. In the modern times I have never heard of a jury or all white men or jury of black women.

Men's way of judging and likes and dislikes are different than women's likes and dislikes...To be fair and above board, the judging panel should reflect the mix of contestants..

I don't know the current judges personally therefore cannot comment on them..but in all fairness we should not assume that they are the best judges because they are sitting in the judges chairs.

The fact is Vaishali on that Day, did not sing at par and criticism is justified from SM. She might do well in next episodes. Also don't forget that putting at champions side is not only on judge's hands but also lies on voters hands. So start voting for Nihira if you wanna see her in champions side instead of bashing judges here.

I disagree that Vaishali sang the worst..she may not have been the best singer but she was far from worst..my vote wouldn't have saved her from going to challengers side..your telling me how to act ..what to do and what not to do is totally uncalled for..



Giving an opinion is not called bashing..in free a society (or on this forum) everyone is allowed to give an opinion without being labelled.


Please give me a reason, why judging panel shouldn't reflect the mix of contestants..why should we put our faith in a tv stations selection of judges when they have taken no account of contestant mix and their viewer ship...it may not bother you..to me it is not right. Being a female ..I would like to see at least one women judge on the panel..I would like to hear female's judges opinion, for me this would make the show more interesting and somewhat reflective of both gender on the show and in the real world.

Edited by April2007 - 12 years ago
rudr_26 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#23


First of all, living in west does not make you expert in western music. Many of us HERE live in west and have significant exposure to western music. That exposure can happen living in any part of the world too. So living in west is irrelevant in today's time.

One doesn't need to be an expert to know the feel of the song, an average listener living in the west in English speaking country will know immediately if the western feel is missing..we's don't need to be an expert in music to tell us if the song's western feel is missing. I don't think English is the language spoken on the streets of India...only 10 to 11 percent can understand english..

So if you agree that you are not an expert then dont give expert opinions like "i live in west, so I know better" attitude. You are just an avg indian who lives in West just like many of us here.

In answer to underlined..

When you live in France you get exposure to french music not English..in Africa you get exposure to African music..to get the exposure you need to be immersed in that environment..it cannot happen anywhere..even though you may think so..the environment you live plays are major role in shaping up your tastes and it is not irrelevant in today's world.

This comments are really stupid in the age of globalization. When people have access to all kind of things these days. And in this case, Vaishali's western feel, which is refer to is, nothing exotic like which happens in a particular remote place. SM commented in general as western feel which is readily available(and understood) from any part of the world. You really dont have to live to learn that, it is not THAT exclusive.



2ndly, your comment "//maybe Indians in India have diff feel for western singing//" is totally uncalled for as you are undermining knowledge of people living in India. Ask anyone here, will tell you the same.

Knowledge and feel are different things..you must have noticed that converted are more religious and fanatics than the people who are born in the religion. Similarly Indian English speakers somehow think they are being fooled by thinking they somehow are expert in nuances and tone of English language ..it was very apparent from the judges remark, I don't think he knew what he is talking about (that is my opinion).

Again if you no expert that you agree, this opinions hardly make sense. and bringing religion as example is tremendously laughable. People will agree that SM has better musical knowledge than YOU in western or eastern. :D So he is better trusted in it. I don't think you know wht you are talking about here.

I don't think any westerner will pretend to understand the feel of Indian song, they will never feel undermined if you tell them that they are wrong..since when knowing the feel of western song is associated with being knowledgeable..

You are not a Westerner Either, so if you think that your judgement on this more valuable than Judges then one can only laugh.

Now you are bring conspiracy theory of gender biasness that you need female judges? And by doing so, you practically insulting judging panel out there. will Putting a female judge ensure that other female contestants will go to champion side? then that female judge needs to be biased against male as per your logic.

No conspiracy theory..you should think before you come up with this kind of logic

All the interview panels, i have been interview by or have been on, have both man and woman panel members in order to remove gender bias and also to have perception of fairness (it is not just important to be fair, the perception is also very important) ...same goes to all the jury selection, the jury consists of members from different ethnic group and genders.. American idol has always had male and female judges.. In the modern times I have never heard of a jury or all white men or jury of black women.

Interview board is not a case of judging art. So you better think before you post this silly comparisons. There are many reason(like TRP or even glam quotient ) that we can have both male and female judges, but to say that a female can judge one female better than male, is foolish. Just check the number of male music directors who actually judge singers on day to day basis for actual work in reality.


I disagree that Vaishali sang the worst..she may not have been the best singer but she was far from worst..my vote wouldn't have saved her from going to challengers side..your telling me how to act ..what to do and what not to do is totally uncalled for..

Vaishali was not up to the mark and her shortcomings were pointed out. Thats all. I asked you to vote because you are bringing unnecessary and illogical arguments on this discussion table. You want female to go to champions side, then go vote for them. Or if you have any other means to put them in champions side, you can do that too.

Giving an opinion is not called bashing..in free a society (or on this forum) everyone is allowed to give an opinion without being labelled.

Your opinions do not makes sense and only after you bring started bringing east-west, male female arguments, I replied. If you talk sense here, no one will bash you.

Please give me a reason, why judging panel shouldn't reflect the mix of contestants..why should we put our faith in a tv stations selection of judges when they have taken no account of contestant mix and their viewer ship...it may not bother you..to me it is not right. Being a female ..I would like to see at least one women judge on the panel..I would like to hear female's judges opinion, for me this would make the show more interesting and somewhat reflective of both gender on the show and in the real world.

After so many years of watching reality shows, if you believe that all that happens in TV are fair and square then you need to have a reality check. They are making money here out of any show. Viewers should not be over emotional. If you are a new comer then its okay.

b4begin thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#24
to add to rudr_26's post, who said only English music is western and french music is not? That statement alone shows how much the poster knows about the western music. Particularly when talking about SM, who gave us many beautiful western flavored songs and known to have a good control over western music amongst current MD's. This is a classic situation in west which they calls "open mouth, feet in" and we illiterate Indian's say, do not comment if you don't know.
bambooshoot thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#25
It is also very naive to think that presence of a female on a panel will ensure that the female participants are judged fairly. April, if you are a female, you may have realised that females tend to view other females as threats or competition more often than males do. Historically, we have seen many instances where a female judge has judged a female participant more harshly than her male counterparts. Let's not get into gender war here. It's not good for anyone.
bellevue thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: bambooshoot

It is also very naive to think that presence of a female on a panel will ensure that the female participants are judged fairly. April, if you are a female, you may have realised that females tend to view other females as threats or competition more often than males do. Historically, we have seen many instances where a female judge has judged a female participant more harshly than her male counterparts. Let's not get into gender war here. It's not good for anyone.

If it was true then by that logic, all females always promote female participants in these kinds reality shows. As far my memory goes, there were plenty of shows where females were part of the judges panel. I have watched Indian Idol, Music ka Mahamuqabla, chote Ustaad, Saregamapa and some of those dancing shows. Most of those shows ended up with a male winner. What about those poor females who have been tortured and went throught hell by their very own MIL. Not only I should mention about mother in laws, how many of us prefer to work under a female bosses? In my own case I rather have a male boss, I find it's much easier to work for a male boss. According to a study, " women in the workplace don't just prefer male bosses over female bosses; they also feel more comfortable with male co-workers."
April2007 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: bellevue

If it was true then by that logic, all females always promote female participants in these kinds reality shows. As far my memory goes, there were plenty of shows where females were part of the judges panel. I have watched Indian Idol, Music ka Mahamuqabla, chote Ustaad, Saregamapa and some of those dancing shows. Most of those shows ended up with a male winner. What about those poor females who have been tortured and went throught hell by their very own MIL. Not only I should mention about mother in laws, how many of us prefer to work under a female bosses? In my own case I rather have a male boss, I find it's much easier to work for a male boss. According to a study, " women in the workplace don't just prefer male bosses over female bosses; they also feel more comfortable with male co-workers."


I agree about the MIL and disagree regarding male bosses..there are horrible male bosses out there..lots of cases of sexual harassment toward a female working in the male dominated professions.. baggage handler, fire fighter, police, military are good examples.
Edited by April2007 - 12 years ago
April2007 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: rudr_26



[quote]

Your opinions do not makes sense and only after you bring started bringing east-west, male female arguments, I replied. If you talk sense here, no one will bash you.


You are using overly aggressive tone and language

Please only talk for yourself and don't bring everybody in your discussions with me..

To me your opinion don't make sense your defence very weak and your language very aggressive and preachy..

In this kind of atmosphere I don't wish to discuss anything with you..
Edited by April2007 - 12 years ago
April2007 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: bambooshoot

It is also very naive to think that presence of a female on a panel will ensure that the female participants are judged fairly. April, if you are a female, you may have realised that females tend to view other females as threats or competition more often than males do. Historically, we have seen many instances where a female judge has judged a female participant more harshly than her male counterparts. Let's not get into gender war here. It's not good for anyone.


I never said it will ensure female participants are judged fairly,she may judge male more fairly ..it is about the panel representing the contestants. The whole dynamics will change..female will bring in her own prospective, we will see judgement by both the genders..

I hope you agree that female voice is different than male and both add to our listening pleasure, both have their place..in the same fashion judges from both the gender will make the panel more wholesome.

By having both genders on the panel we erase the gender war not start it
Edited by April2007 - 12 years ago
rudr_26 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: April2007


You are using overly aggressive tone and language

Please only talk for yourself and don't bring everybody in your discussions with me..

To me your opinion don't make sense your defence very weak and your language very aggressive and preachy..

In this kind of atmosphere I don't wish to discuss anything with you..



If only you had some intelligence in your posts then there was point of any discussion. Well, you leave the 'know it all attitude' out of this forum too.

We saw whose defense is weak here, as you have nothing logical to post anymore. Good for everyone as it saves everyone's time.

Keep the atmosphere healthy without mindless posts.
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